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Truss rod maxed - what are my options?

Sparkdog

Sparkdog

Sep 18, 2006
1,572
970
Burbank, CA
#1
I just got a Fender 70's Jazz (the new MIM reissue) from a guy who bought it on a whim a few months ago. He knew nothing at all about setting up an instrument and said it was exactly the way he found it at Guitar Center. I believe him: the action was awful, the neck was bowed, and intonation was way off, just what you would expect to find on the floor of GC!

But I could tell she was solid and would be a good bass once it was set up. I was wrong - this is a GREAT bass. I have not heard a Jazz that sounds this good in a long time. It's very light and resonant, and every note just jumps off the bass. It still has the stock Fender 7250 strings on it, which sound wonderful.

Now the bad news: I took it to my tech who told me he adjusted the truss rod since the neck was bowed (it wasn't horrible, but definitely needed to be straightened out) It's fine now, but he said the truss rod was really tight and even though he felt it probably should have been tightened one more turn he was afraid he might break it if he did, so he stopped.

I picked this up as they were closing up shop on Friday and didn't have time to discuss in more detail. I'm planning to call Fender on Monday, but being the second owner I don't imagine they will help me. If everything stays as it is I would gladly play this bass until it falls apart, but I'm concerned now about not being able to tighten the truss any further if it should need it.

Is this going to be a problem for me down the road? I don't think returning it is an option. The guy I bought it from was clueless about it so I don't think he ever messed with the truss rod or knew there was an issue. Nor would I want to give it up...this one just has that special mojo, even I had to buy a new neck for it I would.

Any suggestions? Lighter strings maybe, something like TI flats or tapewounds that are known for low tension? That would presumably let me loosen the truss rod and have some room to tighten if needed later on.

Thanks.
 
#3
Pilgrim said:
Lighter strings might help by reducing tension.

A common fix discussed here (which I have not had to use) is to back out the truss rod nut, modify a couple of washers so they will slide over the truss rod as spacers, then re-install the truss rod nut. Gives you more adjustment.

YMMV.
Click to expand...

I can't believe the tech doesn't know this trick. Get another tech.
 
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#4
In a worst-case situation, Stew-Mac has a truss rod repair kit that will not only give you more adjustment, it will rethread the end of the rod for more adjustability too.

Like all things SM, this is an expensive option - but if you want to keep the bass as it is and not disturb it for a new neck or having to just play it as it is and hope nothing changes, this may be one of the only answers.

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Try the washer trick first though.
 
#5
I would try lighter strings first, I had the same problem with a dean flying v, the truss rod was maxed, but needed more adjusting, I got lighter gauge strings, as well as balancing the tension from string to string, the action was perfect and i had some room to work with if it needed more adjusting. If you play in standard tuning, I suggest getting circle k strings, i think the .090 balanced set would do you justice.
 
#6
Thanks guys, I'm thinking lighter strings are the way to go too. That was my tech's first suggestion, he basically said the neck was fine but didn't have more room to tighten with the current setup and strings (I'm sure he knows the washer trick...this is a 2 man shop with heavyweight clients...I've met Sekou Bunch and Abe Laboriel in there and the owner tours with Sting and artists at that level several times a year as their tech)

I played this bass at a jam last night, her maiden voyage, and she really is special so I'm gonna do whatever it takes to keep her working for a long time.

I'll check out the Circle K's...any other string suggestions to look at? The strings on it are stock Fender 7250, the old style with back silks which I understand are no longer available. They have gone quite dead and have a flatwound type thunk to them which is just delicious, while still having a little edge. I would love to stay with that sound but with lower tension.

That's basically the description I've heard for TI Jazz Flats so I'm interested in those too.
 
#7
SurferJoe46 said:
In a worst-case situation, Stew-Mac has a truss rod repair kit that will not only give you more adjustment, it will rethread the end of the rod for more adjustability too.

Like all things SM, this is an expensive option - but if you want to keep the bass as it is and not disturb it for a new neck or having to just play it as it is and hope nothing changes, this may be one of the only answers.

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Try the washer trick first though.
Click to expand...

+1 Excellent advice here!
 
#9
(1) The washer trick is the fix to not having enough threads remaining on the truss rod.

(2) It's entirely possible that there's a "ski-slope" condition on this neck. And the truss rod is not designed to compensate for that condition.

(3) Any neck that requires a different gauge string in order to be playable is simply not a neck in good working order.
 
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#10
Might not, with a different neck, something to consider.

Did this uber-tech backclamp the neck, when he tried to get more adjustment? If not, he hasn't exhausted all the possibilities, to help your bass get back to superior playability.

Sparkdog said:
I just got a Fender 70's Jazz (the new MIM reissue) from a guy who bought it on a whim a few months ago. He knew nothing at all about setting up an instrument and said it was exactly the way he found it at Guitar Center. I believe him: the action was awful, the neck was bowed, and intonation was way off, just what you would expect to find on the floor of GC!

But I could tell she was solid and would be a good bass once it was set up. I was wrong - this is a GREAT bass. I have not heard a Jazz that sounds this good in a long time. It's very light and resonant, and every note just jumps off the bass. It still has the stock Fender 7250 strings on it, which sound wonderful.

Now the bad news: I took it to my tech who told me he adjusted the truss rod since the neck was bowed (it wasn't horrible, but definitely needed to be straightened out) It's fine now, but he said the truss rod was really tight and even though he felt it probably should have been tightened one more turn he was afraid he might break it if he did, so he stopped.

I picked this up as they were closing up shop on Friday and didn't have time to discuss in more detail. I'm planning to call Fender on Monday, but being the second owner I don't imagine they will help me. If everything stays as it is I would gladly play this bass until it falls apart, but I'm concerned now about not being able to tighten the truss any further if it should need it.

Is this going to be a problem for me down the road? I don't think returning it is an option. The guy I bought it from was clueless about it so I don't think he ever messed with the truss rod or knew there was an issue. Nor would I want to give it up...this one just has that special mojo, even I had to buy a new neck for it I would.

Any suggestions? Lighter strings maybe, something like TI flats or tapewounds that are known for low tension? That would presumably let me loosen the truss rod and have some room to tighten if needed later on.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
#11
If you are talking about the repair shop on Moorpark, I am surprised that they didn't suggest this. They are the best.

I bought some small brass washers at the Anawalt Building center on Burbank & Vineland that work great for this - didn't have to cut them down.
 
#12
Sparkdog said:
Thanks guys, I'm thinking lighter strings are the way to go too. That was my tech's first suggestion, he basically said the neck was fine but didn't have more room to tighten with the current setup and strings (I'm sure he knows the washer trick...this is a 2 man shop with heavyweight clients...I've met Sekou Bunch and Abe Laboriel in there and the owner tours with Sting and artists at that level several times a year as their tech)
Click to expand...

That's fine and dandy, but he admitted to you that he wasn't satisfied with the results and that another full turn would be required, then took your money!:eyebrow::scowl:
Do you think they treat Sting that way? :rollno:

Look, like another said here, the neck isn't 100% functional but can easily made to be. His job, as hired by you, is to accomplish that. S'all I'm sayin.
 
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#13
Hey guys, thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. This is the first time I've dealt with this issue so it's new to me.

Bassamatic - Yes, it's the shop on Moorpark, I've been dealing with those guys for years and and they are great.

JLS - Yes, you're right about the neck, changing it could diminish or erase the mojo she's got going on so I don't want to go that route.

96tbird - You're right, the tech should resolve the problem and explore all options, but to be fair I don't think I explained this very well.

I got this bass on Friday and took it to my guy that afternoon for the nut adjustment. I didn't expect to get it back that day, they are always super busy and literally have instruments piled up to the ceiling in every corner. But, they are also really accomodating to their regulars and told me I could come back right at 5 PM when they close to get it so I would have it for the weekend.

When I went back they had several guys waiting to get their instruments and it was a little crazy in there. My guy broke away from the pack and got my bass. I had only asked him to adjust the nut slots, which he did, but he had also oiled the fingerboard and tweaked the truss rod, neither of which he charged me for. The grand total was $15.

We had a 2 minute conversation about the truss rod, I was not going to tie him up with all my questions while they were trying to take care of all these customers and get out for the weekend. I'm going to call when they open on Tuesday and I'm sure he will go into all the options and what's involved.

And just to clarify, the neck plays great right now. He tends to set the relief really flat, personally I wouldn't have gone any further, it looks and feels fine.

My thinking at this point is that I will probably have to change strings eventually, the roundwounds on there are going to get deader and deader, right? Unlike flats, which I install and never change, I've never had rounds on for many months or years, but I imagine they will become un-tunable and lifeless at some point. So if spend the money for something like TI flats now the tension/truss thing is a non-issue because they are much lower tension than the rounds (assuming I like them of course) and then the truss rod can be loosened and has room to spare.

Like I said, this is new to me, but doing the washer thing is obviously going to take some time and money so I could end up spending as much or more as I would just swapping out strings.

That's what I'm thinking at this point, feel free to tell me how my logic is skewed...it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've gotten it wrong :)
 
#14
Hi.

Sparkdog said:
Like I said, this is new to me, but doing the washer thing is obviously going to take some time and money so I could end up spending as much or more as I would just swapping out strings.

That's what I'm thinking at this point, feel free to tell me how my logic is skewed...it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've gotten it wrong :)
Click to expand...

Well...

If someone charges more than a buck for the washer, I'd say You've been had.

Granted, some setup and removal of the neck is required so that will cost more, and a normal hardwarestore washer won't work right out of the box (can crack the neck in two, especially with a headstock end nut), but compared with a string change, it'll be cheap.

Regards
Sam
 
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#15
Hey guys, I may be hijacking the thread here, and I apologize if I do.

I've been thinking for the last month or so about this washer trick on my Fender P Bass. She's a beaut, but the truss rod bolt (located at the heel of the neck) is as tight as she can go, and I personally would like a little bit more relief (it's at .021" now), or atleast a little bit more room just for whatever. Though she plays fine, I think this washer trick could certainly help.

I understand that the hole in the washer has to be big enough to go around the bolt (anyone know what size that is for a 2000 Fender MIA P?), and that it's overall diameter must be smaller than the drilled out hole. Is there anything else I should know?

And how do I go about doing this? Can I just loosen the strings, take out the neck bolts, slide the neck just a bit out of the heel to get at the bolt, unscrew the bolt right out, put two washers (?) on it and tighten it back up, then screw in the neck bolts, and then tune the strings? Does that sound right?

Thanks,

Matt
 
#16
If it's already as flat or a little flatter than you need it to be for your playability, I wouldn't worry about it.

If the day came that you wanted to sell it, you could revisit the matter. It could be that heat treatment and clamping could take care of it. But it's not like we're talking about a high dollar piece where big money is at stake, nor about an issue that is affecting playability now or going to get worse if not addressed. It's only relevance at the moment would be if it was grounds for return, and it sounds like it's a keeper so that's out.
 
#17
I'm speaking with my tech tomorrow to get deeper into this and figure out the best solution.

Does anyone know if the washer trick is or is not an option with the bullet style truss rod this bass has?
 

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#18
Sparkdog said:
Now the bad news: I took it to my tech who told me he adjusted the truss rod since the neck was bowed (it wasn't horrible, but definitely needed to be straightened out) It's fine now, but he said the truss rod was really tight and even though he felt it probably should have been tightened one more turn he was afraid he might break it if he did, so he stopped.
Click to expand...

This doesn't should an issue a washer could fix. The washer is for when you run out of threads (very common on P basses for some reason). The above statement implies that the truss is just too tight, not out of threads.

I agree with JLS, sounds like you need to backclamp the neck. But that would be more than $15 ;)
 
#19
Hi.

Sparkdog said:
Does anyone know if the washer trick is or is not an option with the bullet style truss rod this bass has?
Click to expand...

With a J, I automatically assumed a heel end TR nut.

On a headstock end nut it's even easier, since removing the neck isn't necessary, but like said earlier, a great care have to be taken to have a correct size washer.

Your tech will know, don't worry.


Regards
Sam
 

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