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Truss rod maxed - what are my options?

#21
teleharmonium said:
If it's already as flat or a little flatter than you need it to be for your playability, I wouldn't worry about it.

If the day came that you wanted to sell it, you could revisit the matter. It could be that heat treatment and clamping could take care of it.
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+1

if it's pretty straight, and it feels fine to you, don't worry about it.

the mojo of a fender mostly follows the neck, so a different one would just be a different bass, really.
 
#25
Does anyone have any tips that I can use?

My bass is a 2000 Fender MIA P. The truss rod bolt is in the heel and a pain in the ass to get to. I think the bolt is as tight as it can go, I certainly can't spin it anymore (but it may be a leverage thing because I can't get to the bolt straight-on), and I'm worried that if I do then I'll strip the bolt or something. I just hate thouse rounded-end allen keys you have to use.

Anyways, when I fret the first and last frets, I can slide nothing larger than a .021" feeler gauge on top of the seventh fret. Now this isn't a huge issue, the relief isn't that bad, but I would prefer it be a bit lower.

Is there anything I can do to lower the relief more? I don't want to do the washer trick as the bolt will stick out further and make it even harder to tighten the bolt (because of the now larger angle). Can I do something like loosen the strings, loosen the bolt, wait, tighten the bolt while holding down the neck, and then tune the strings again? I don't know if that would help, I'm just putting some of my thoughts out there.

Any suggestions would be very helpful,

Matt
 
#26
Matthew_84 said:
Does putting two washers on the truss rod bolt cause the bolt to stick out further?

My truss rod bolt is in the heel and it's completely flush with the end of the neck. I'd like to do this washer trick, but probably couldn't if it did. Thanks
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It will not affect the bolt, it will affect the nut. And generally, if you need the washers, the nut is well inside the hole.
 
#27
Oh, thanks for that Sean, I understand how a truss rod works but I don't fully understand how it is constructed. Anyways, I read on another thread that you used #8 washers and you suggest drilling out a 7/32" hole.

Is there anything else I need to know or do I just loosen the strings, loosen the neck bolts, unscrew the truss rod bolt right out, put in the two washers, hand screw the rod bolt (to ensure I don't cross-thread it), then tighten it up, secure the neck back on and then tune the strings? Sounds pretty easy
 
#28
The truss rod bolt is in the heel and a pain in the ass to get to
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Yes, they are.

I take a measurement of the relief @ F7, tuned to pitch. Then take a reading, strings slack--this tells me how much spring the neck has. When I loosen the neck bolts, and either remove the neck, or deal with it still loosely attached to the body, I can dial in the amount of relief I want to remove, pretty damn accurately.

I use this tool, that I made for this purpose, or the Stewmac tool, which I've had for several years: Invalid Link Removed
 

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#29
Matthew_84 said:
Hey guys, I may be hijacking the thread here, and I apologize if I do.

I've been thinking for the last month or so about this washer trick on my Fender P Bass. She's a beaut, but the truss rod bolt (located at the heel of the neck) is as tight as she can go, and I personally would like a little bit more relief (it's at .021" now), or atleast a little bit more room just for whatever. Though she plays fine, I think this washer trick could certainly help.

I understand that the hole in the washer has to be big enough to go around the bolt (anyone know what size that is for a 2000 Fender MIA P?), and that it's overall diameter must be smaller than the drilled out hole. Is there anything else I should know?

And how do I go about doing this? Can I just loosen the strings, take out the neck bolts, slide the neck just a bit out of the heel to get at the bolt, unscrew the bolt right out, put two washers (?) on it and tighten it back up, then screw in the neck bolts, and then tune the strings? Does that sound right?
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Matthew_84 said:
Matt - that sounds about right on the process to add the washer. I am however unfamiliar with the size of the washer itself. I have an '83 Fender P Elite with a spaghetti neck that had no room left on the TR. A good friend who is a whiz at this stuff slipped in a washer about a year ago and it hasn't given me any problems at all. NB, my Pbass has the adjustment at the nut not the heel.
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#30
JLS said:
Yes, they are.

I take a measurement of the relief @ F7, tuned to pitch. Then take a reading, strings slack--this tells me how much spring the neck has. When I loosen the neck bolts, and either remove the neck, or deal with it still loosely attached to the body, I can dial in the amount of relief I want to remove, pretty damn accurately.

I use this tool, that I made for this purpose, or the Stewmac tool, which I've had for several years: Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Sorry JLS, I'm just trying to understand the tool. So, you loosen up the strings and use this tool to see how much relief you have, then take the neck off and tighten the bolt, wait a bit, and use this tool to see what relief you have now, and once you got it to a spot you're happy with then you screw it back on the bass and tune the strings?

I normally do my adjustments with a rounded-end allen key, which I'd prefer not to, but I'd honestly rather do that then removing the neck altogether (bad experience once). But this is a good idea for when I do this washer trick.
 
#31
Matthew_84 said:
Sorry JLS, I'm just trying to understand the tool. So, you loosen up the strings and use this tool to see how much relief you have, then take the neck off and tighten the bolt, wait a bit, and use this tool to see what relief you have now, and once you got it to a spot you're happy with then you screw it back on the bass and tune the strings?

I normally do my adjustments with a rounded-end allen key, which I'd prefer not to, but I'd honestly rather do that then removing the neck altogether (bad experience once). But this is a good idea for when I do this washer trick.
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If you re-read my post, you'll see the timeline; I do it in this order, so that I can see how much the string tension pulls the neck forward.

Let's say this: I get a reading of .030 right next to F7, strings on. Slack strings, I get .020--this means that the stings bend this neck .010. If I'm shooting for .010 relief in the neck, strung to pitch, I would then adjust the unstrung neck to 0.0 relief--dead flat-- with my dial indicator tool, because I know that it's going to pull into .010 relief when it's restrung. Make sense?

You need to get over your phobia about removing the neck; that's what those screws are there for.

Hope this helps.
 
#33
LOL, thanks it makes perfect sense now. And yeah, I will have to get over it. I just had a POS bass before with crappy hardware, and had some issues when I was putting it back on.

I've just tried to leave this new bass alone when it comes to stuff like that, but truthfully, I'm sure the hardware is of better quality. And I did learn from that last experience.

Thanks
 
#34
JLS said:
Let's say this: I get a reading of .030 right next to F7, strings on. Slack strings, I get .020--this means that the stings bend this neck .010. If I'm shooting for .010 relief in the neck, strung to pitch, I would then adjust the unstrung neck to 0.0 relief--dead flat-- with my dial indicator tool, because I know that it's going to pull into .010 relief when it's restrung. Make sense?
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it actually tracks like that? the degree of change you create while turning the rod unstrung follows the degree of change you get when back under tension?

even when you get, say .012" strung and a significant backbow unstrung?
 
#36
walterw said:
it actually tracks like that? the degree of change you create while turning the rod unstrung follows the degree of change you get when back under tension?

even when you get, say .012" strung and a significant backbow unstrung?
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Seems to work, so far--however much the neck backbows, is what I'm going to use as a base for the adjustment. I get where you're going, though, and it's a good point.

There's a lot of past experience involved in making the decision of where I want the neck to end up, relief-wise, but this certainly gets me very, very close to where I (think I) want to be.

This tool was conceived as a means to measure relief between any two points on the fingerboard, so that I could get an idea of what I'd be dealing with in going after a ski jump: I can see how much relief there is in the part of the neck covered by the trussrod, and also what's going on between F15 and the last fret, by resetting the two outriggers. Say I show .010 relief at F9, with the instrument strung up, but .030 between F15 & F21--this is a serious kickup, that isn't going to be fixed by filing down the high frets. I see it as similar to the relationship between the height of a saddle, and action at the 12th fret, where every increment of reduction at F12, requires twice that amount, at the saddle.

This all springs from Don Teeter's simple one-point method of measuring neck relief, BTW.
 
#39
The Fender part ubnomnar showed is available right now on eBay from Angela. It's a brass washer that's .375" OD and .230" ID if you're feeling creative. $6 plus shipping, I know the hassle of making my own is worth that much. If I were working in a shop where I could turn one on-site, I might feel different.

Remember to "harden" the wood beneath the nut and washer with thin CA before you put everything back together.
 

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