Double Bass Trying to identify this c1920s double bass

[Graemez]

My late dad's 3/4 size double bass has a carved letter B on the back of the headstock under the scroll. There is no label. There are original hat peg tuners, which may be ebony.

The bass was bought used in the 1950s from the band room of a defunct orchestra which was active in the 1920s and 1930s. The bass was restored by a UK luthier in 1990/91. Any ideas?

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Francois Blais]

Is there a label inside the bass?
Should be visible from a F hole.

 

[Graemez]

No label is present or visible through either F hole.

 

[Graemez]

More images..

 

[AGCurry]

I suspect the back has been replaced.

 

[Graemez]

I suspect the back has been replaced.

AGCurry - I can confirm it is not a replacement back. It seems exactly the same age and patina as the rest of the bass. I’m curious as to what made you think that it is?

Any idea about the carved letter ‘B’ on the back of the headstock?

 

[Graemez]

A cursive letter B is carved within an oval vignette at the base of the scroll back. Is this a ‘Bohemia’ mark?

 

[AGCurry]

AGCurry - I can confirm it is not a replacement back. It seems exactly the same age and patina as the rest of the bass. I’m curious as to what made you think that it is?

Any idea about the carved letter ‘B’ on the back of the headstock?

In your photos, the wood (and its condition) looks way different from the front. I could be wrong, of course! No idea about the carved 'B'.

 

[eh_train]

1920s is probably correct. I can't tell from your pics whether the top is solid or not. If you take a pic as if you were playing it and looking down at the bridge, that angle should give a good sample of the edge of the top.

Also, how tall is the bass? An approximately 3/4 sized bass will be about 6 feet tall. I'm thinking yours may be smaller than that...

 

[Graemez]

1920s is probably correct. I can't tell from your pics whether the top is solid or not. If you take a pic as if you were playing it and looking down at the bridge, that angle should give a good sample of the edge of the top.

Also, how tall is the bass? An approximately 3/4 sized bass will be about 6 feet tall. I'm thinking yours may be smaller than that...

Eh_train, many thanks for this.
The bass is 72 inches from the lowest part of the body to the top of the scroll.
I’ve attached some shots from that approximate ‘playing’ angle. Hope they are useful.

 

[eh_train]

Pics are some help. In a perfect scenario, with a carved top, there’d be a nice rounded “lip” at the edge, where the carver intentionally left the edge thicker for durability. And, ideally, some clear vertical grain wrapping around the lip.

Just looking on my phone, those things are hard to see…. But I do see some vertical cracks in the top, underneath the fingerboard. Those would be very unlikely on a ply top (because you have grains going in multiple directions).

So, I think you have a solid top with a very thin edge, and possibly too-thick varnish that is masking any grain that may be there.

Anyone else see it differently? Again, just viewing on my phone, ymmv, etc…

 

[Don Hergert]

Do these help???

 

[eh_train]

Pics are some help. In a perfect scenario, with a carved top, there’d be a nice rounded “lip” at the edge, where the carver intentionally left the edge thicker for durability. And, ideally, some clear vertical grain wrapping around the lip.

Just looking on my phone, those things are hard to see…. But I do see some vertical cracks in the top, underneath the fingerboard. Those would be very unlikely on a ply top (because you have grains going in multiple directions).

So, I think you have a solid top with a very thin edge, and possibly too-thick varnish that is masking any grain that may be there.

Anyone else see it differently? Again, just viewing on my phone, ymmv, etc…

Do these help???

Nope.

Below is what we're looking for: grain that you can see, wrapping around the top edge. I think the OPs bass has too much finish on it to be able to tell.
I recommend scraping some of the varnish off the edge in an inconspicuous area...

 

[Rebop]

This kinda looks carved to me.

 

[Graemez]

Thank you guys. Attaching more images showing the edges, f holes. Several areas have wood exposed from wear through the varnish. A hole in one of the ribs was repaired in around 1990 by the luthier.

 

[Francois Blais]

Could the fingerboard be white wood stained black?
Would be strange for a carved instrument.

 

[jj.833]

Could the fingerboard be white wood stained black?

I don't know how worldwide, but in Czech, I believe blackened white wood (I believe mostly walnut) fingerboards were common on basses from early 20th century. If the bass survived 20th century, the fingerboard would later have been replaced, because modern steel strings like different fingerboard scope than gut strings of the times. The replacement would be ebony.
The bass doesn't look Czech (Bohemian - Schönbach) to me, but I'm no expert.

 

[Graemez]

Thanks JJ, Francois,
I’m very familiar with the history of this bass as it has lived in the family home for most of my life. It had a hard life in the 1950s and 1960s when my dad was playing dance band gigs and a long club residency where the bass was kept until the early 70s. I can confirm that the fretboard is not a replacement and that there are two gut strings and two wound bronze looking metal strings. The fretboard does indeed have some visible scuffs along the edges, as do the hat peg tuners and both show a reddish colour wood where these scuffs are. The fretboard feels extremely hard and smooth to the touch, even where there are changes in the surface colour.

 

[Francois Blais]

My cheap german plywood has a maple fingerboard stained black, and the sides look quite similar to yours, so my guess.
Maybe it's not maple, but a hard wood with a pale gain, which has been stained black.
But then again, just a supposition!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Ask the luthier who's seen it and worked on it for details about it.