Double Bass Trying to identify this c1920s double bass

[eh_train]

Thank you guys. Attaching more images showing the edges, f holes. Several areas have wood exposed from wear through the varnish. A hole in one of the ribs was repaired in around 1990 by the luthier.

Image 5803 for the win! It clearly shows grain running over and around the edge.

The fingerboard is dyed wood, a cost-saving measure back in the day (and, I guess, still today). As long as it's playing without significant buzzing, no need to do anything with it....

 

[Graemez]

Ask the luthier who's seen it and worked on it for details about it.

A good idea. It was 36 years ago, but he’s still around and may remember some details about working on bass. I’m still very pleased with the way the restoration was done as it preserved the historic qualities of the instrument while making it more playable, which it still is!

 

[Graemez]

Image 5803 for the win! It clearly shows grain running over and around the edge.

The fingerboard is dyed wood, a cost-saving measure back in the day (and, I guess, still today). As long as it's playing without significant buzzing, no need to do anything with it....

Cheers!
Yes, is the term ‘ebonised’?
It could well be be mahogany under the black surface of both the pegs and the fingerboard.

 

[bass player 53]

Image 5803 for the win! It clearly shows grain running over and around the edge.

The fingerboard is dyed wood, a cost-saving measure back in the day (and, I guess, still today). As long as it's playing without significant buzzing, no need to do anything with it....

The bass has a non-ply top with what we call ‘outside lining’, as opposed to the photo that you showed earlier.
Some basses have ‘inside linings’, and some have ‘outside linings’. The f hole coloring on the OP’s bass is a little more difficult to explain, but maybe the builder had a reason.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

A good idea. It was 36 years ago, but he’s still around and may remember some details about working on bass. I’m still very pleased with the way the restoration was done as it preserved the historic qualities of the instrument while making it more playable, which it still is!

I would make an appointment and bring it in for him to check out now. Worth it to get a pro, up close, opinion.

 

[Graemez]

The bass has a non-ply top with what we call ‘outside lining’, as opposed to the photo that you showed earlier.
Some basses have ‘inside linings’, and some have ‘outside linings’. The f hole coloring on the OP’s bass is a little more difficult to explain, but maybe the builder had a reason.

This is fascinating. Thanks! Do you mean the colours around the f holes or of the grain in the f holes?

 

[Graemez]

I would make an appointment and bring it in for him to check out now. Worth it to get a pro, up close, opinion.

Absolutely!

 

[bass player 53]

This is fascinating. Thanks! Do you mean the colours around the f holes or of the grain in the f holes?

The color in some photos of the f holes looks darker than the adjacent areas of the top. It’s difficult to tell if it’s truly darker or just the photography. Many plywood top basses have the f holes painted black. I’m not sure of the exact reason; perhaps to try to hide the fact that the top is ply…I don’t know.
My 100 year old solid wood Juzek style bass has outside linings. The f holes appear dark in my photos (and dusty ).

 

[bass player 53]

This is fascinating. Thanks! Do you mean the colours around the f holes or of the grain in the f holes?

My old orchestra bass has inside linings at the top of the top and back, and outside linings on the bottom of the top (the lower bout). It needs work.

 

[eh_train]

... Some basses have ‘inside linings’, and some have ‘outside linings’...

bp, in my experience, all basses have inside linings, and some have both inside and out.

 

[Graemez]

The color in some photos of the f holes looks darker than the adjacent areas of the top. It’s difficult to tell if it’s truly darker or just the photography. Many plywood top basses have the f holes painted black. I’m not sure of the exact reason; perhaps to try to hide the fact that the top is ply…I don’t know.
My 100 year old solid wood Juzek style bass has outside linings. The f holes appear dark in my photos (and dusty ).

Yes, that detail of the outside linings and dusty f holes on your images really bears a strong resemblance to this bass. Could this be the best clue so far to identifying this bass?
Does your Juzek style bass have an eliptical feature on the top rear of the neck at the base of the headstock?

 

[bass player 53]

Yes, that detail of the outside linings and dusty f holes on your images really bears a strong resemblance to this bass. Could this be the best clue so far to identifying this bass?
Does your Juzek style bass have an eliptical feature on the top rear of the neck at the base of the headstock?

This is a photo of the top rear of the neck on my bass.
My bass has no maker label, and you can also see that the neck is not original, having been hand made by Joseph Primerano in Buffalo in 1945. So, I know the bass is at least 80 years old. It was bought by my father in the early 1970’s from Sam Kolstein. Coincidentally, around the same time, I was attending SUNY/Buffalo and went to that same shop to have my blonde Kay bass fixed.

 

[Graemez]

Thanks bass player 53, that’s more amazing history and detail. I can now see some subtle differences with those views.
The outer linings of this bass have an additional connecting piece (of outer lining profile) butted up to the join of the neck heel on both sides of the upper bouts. Also the back of the bass is shaped at its highest point to mostly cover the back of the neck heel.

 

[Mark_T]

The color in some photos of the f holes looks darker than the adjacent areas of the top. It’s difficult to tell if it’s truly darker or just the photography. Many plywood top basses have the f holes painted black. I’m not sure of the exact reason; perhaps to try to hide the fact that the top is ply…I don’t know.
My 100 year old solid wood Juzek style bass has outside linings. The f holes appear dark in my photos (and dusty ).

My modern carved bass has the inside of the fs painted black. Not sure why - maybe it's acting as some protection against the absorption of moisture? Who knows.

 

[BPM Strings]

The f holes on most basses have black paint on the inside because it looks good, it is not a unique feature. The OP bass is a hybrid German trade bass. 1920s is a likely story, although I don't know how you could say that for sure.

 

[Graemez]

The f holes on most basses have black paint on the inside because it looks good, it is not a unique feature. The OP bass is a hybrid German trade bass. 1920s is a likely story, although I don't know how you could say that for sure.

Thank you BPM Strings, that is an extremely helpful observation. By ‘German trade’ would that narrow it down to Markneukirchen or Mittenwald makers?

The local ‘Rolling Mills Prize Orchestra’ from the redundant collection of which my late father bought this bass, was only active from the 1920s until the late 1930s.

On the subject of black paint, there is a barely visible black pinstripe painted about 6mm in from the contour edges of both the front and back plates of the bass. It is largely obscured by the darkened finish of the bass towards the edges.

I’m wondering also what hybrid you think the composition is. By the appearance of the flat back it might be flamed maple and the carved front maybe spruce? .

 

[Mark_T]

That black stripe is to imitate the inlaid purfling that carved basses have. On a carved instrument it is intended to stop cracks from propagating, and it’s decorative. On a laminated instrument cracks are prevented by the layers of wood so the black is usually painted on to retain the traditional look.

 

[Mark_T]

The f holes on most basses have black paint on the inside because it looks good, it is not a unique feature. The OP bass is a hybrid German trade bass. 1920s is a likely story, although I don't know how you could say that for sure.

I played a concert Saturday night and took a quick peek at the Fs on the rest of the section basses and all of them had the same black paint. That’s two anonymous German or Bohemian basses probably 60-100 years old and a modern Shen. Mine is about 7 years old and made by an American luthier here out west.

 

[bassmanbrent]

The f holes on most basses have black paint on the inside because it looks good, it is not a unique feature. The OP bass is a hybrid German trade bass. 1920s is a likely story, although I don't know how you could say that for sure.

The luthier I used to go to (RIP Gerard Samija) told me that the black paint is used for two reasons.
1. It hides the layers of ply on a laminate top.
2. It hides less than perfect knife work on a carved top.
As mentioned by BPM, it's very common. Many (most?) basses have black paint on their F holes in my experience.

 

[Graemez]

That black stripe is to imitate the inlaid purfling that carved basses have. On a carved instrument it is intended to stop cracks from propagating, and it’s decorative. On a laminated instrument cracks are prevented by the layers of wood so the black is usually painted on to retain the traditional look.

That’s interesting. So it’s painted ‘faux purfling’ on both plates. The top is carved. The back is flat and has a very smooth surface, with a differently angled flat section towards the neck.