Trying Vegetarianism for a week or so

[DwaynieAD]

well, i'm convinced. giving up on my veganism right now. what would animals ever do without human made shelters and breeding facilities? certainly not survive on their own! good thing we've been there to save them forever.

the animals we consume regularly most certainly would have a hard time surviving without humans.

 

[DwaynieAD]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I wrote this...

reading this made me 10 minutes late for lunch yesterday

 

[bassbully]

reading this made me 10 minutes late for lunch yesterday

Interesting. I am going to check this out.

 

[Kaa]

I've been a vegetarian for nearly 40 years, vegan for 25 or so, and a competitive athlete for a solid portion of that time.

Human beings are omnivores; we have tearing teeth in the front to eat flesh, and grinding teeth in the back, to eat grains and vegetables. Our digestive mechanism is not as brief as a pure carnivore's, nor as convoluted as a strict herbivore. But...we also have outsized brains, and hands that can manipulate our environment. We don't live in a state of nature, and we can make choices that other animals can't. We have the tools to acquire complete proteins, a full complement of B vitamins, and appropriate amino profile--without meat, and without much effort.
People choose vegetarianism for different reasons. Some do it for health, some aesthetics, some for political, religious, spiritual reasons. Some embrace it for a short time, some for life. Not all even eat a particularly healthy diet, especially starters and dabblers. Most who stick with it evolve a personalized approach that works for them. Even people who give it up emerge with a greater awareness of the consequences of what the put in their mouths--for themselves, and for their neighbors.

Great post!!!!

 

[Kaa]

I always get a chuckle form the "the cows would die off without us" debate. Yes, they would, just like any and every other species, they have a limited time on the planet.

We humans have guaranteed their demise by taking over all of their open range.

 

[Kaa]

the animals we consume regularly most certainly would have a hard time surviving without humans.

Not pigs.

 

[blendermassacre]

reading this made me 10 minutes late for lunch yesterday

Does that mean you liked it or that you were so appalled that you had to keep reading?

 

[DwaynieAD]

Does that mean you liked it or that you were so appalled that you had to keep reading?

very good read.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Not pigs.

definitely not pigs. although pigs are about as domesticated as cats... not at all..

 

[mrbell321]

aborgman and Jazz Ad explain correctly why we eat meat.
I have only to said that vegetarian confuse a ethic cause we a biological ones.
You can do the diet now because you can transport vegetables and grow then and manipulate then by random and nonrandom mutations.

Actually, many vegetarians and vegans are fans of a concept called "local food". That is, you don't have to transport your food very far. For example, I'm part of a CSA. A good portion of the vegetables I eat are grown about 2 miles from my home.
Also, a significant portion of meat consumed in the US is imported.

And there is not evidence to say that with a vegetarian diet you will live longer.

I'm going to call outright bullsh*t on this one. There are many many studies that show that vegetarian diets are highly correlated with longer life WITH less disease. Probably the best cited(and one of the largest was performed by the German Cancer Research Center which concluded that vegetarian men were 50% less likely to die early. Also, check out "The China Study". The author clearly has a bias towards vegetarianism, as he sometimes leaps from "reduced meat intake leads to improved health" to "no meat must make you immortal". It still contains great research and a huge volume of numbers that at least mostly support his findings.

You can do it, because you love animals (ethical reason) don't like meat (like my son) or try to lower your calories intake.

Just because I want to be argumentative. Vegetarianism doesn't automatically mean you eat fewer calories. I know overweight vegetarians. I also know vegetarians who eat really unhealthy.

There is enough evidence about the protein consumption in different societies, that will tell why we eat meat in our evolution.
They are reason for doing but no biological ones.

I think I've given enough information to say this last line isn't true.

Enjoy being vegetarian and enjoy life.

I do. Thanks.

 

[JoseNeville]

Actually, many vegetarians and vegans are fans of a concept called "local food". That is, you don't have to transport your food very far. For example, I'm part of a CSA. A good portion of the vegetables I eat are grown about 2 miles from my home.
Also, a significant portion of meat consumed in the US is imported.

I'm going to call outright bullsh*t on this one. There are many many studies that show that vegetarian diets are highly correlated with longer life WITH less disease. Probably the best cited(and one of the largest was performed by the German Cancer Research Center which concluded that vegetarian men were 50% less likely to die early. Also, check out "The China Study". The author clearly has a bias towards vegetarianism, as he sometimes leaps from "reduced meat intake leads to improved health" to "no meat must make you immortal". It still contains great research and a huge volume of numbers that at least mostly support his findings.


Just because I want to be argumentative. Vegetarianism doesn't automatically mean you eat fewer calories. I know overweight vegetarians. I also know vegetarians who eat really unhealthy.

I think I've given enough information to say this last line isn't true.

I do. Thanks.

You are making a correlation problem, those vegetarian diet make you live longer of vegetarian people are better educated and have a higher standar of living? I search for a real good evidence and literature that support what you said, one study is not enough. You should have a peer review publications that have been verified. The same happens with wine, wine make this, make that, when you make a research you find that people who consume wine have better diets and higher standards of living.

You don't understand my point, I'm not again vegetarians and again that vegetarians believe they got a biological argument when you have a ethical one. And the ethical one, it's really good.

And of course you don't have to transport many miles now in some places because you have the technology and our ancestor domesticate many plants that you can grow in many different places.

 

[mrbell321]

I only mentioned two(not one) studies because I did not feel the need to provide an exhaustive list. I only included two well known studies.
Also, the information in the China Study was arrived at through rigorous observation and peer review. It was actually based on a real scientific research project called the Cornell-Oxford-China study(I think...). That study was a peer-reviewed meta-study which includes information obtained though several smaller peer-reviewed research projects.
I understand that you promote a point that ethical vegetarian/veganism is a good thing. Great. But, without providing any arguments other than your own personal viewpoint, you are dismissive of research that provides evidence(doesn't prove; proof is extraordinarily hard in this field) that vegetarianism is a biologically superior system. So, I have provided scientific evidence for a vegetarian diet. Please provide scientific evidence against.

 

[electracoyote]

well, i'm convinced. giving up on my veganism right now. what would animals ever do without human made shelters and breeding facilities? certainly not survive on their own! good thing we've been there to save them forever.

I only hope you have half as much concern and compassion for the human beings in your world who are suffering.

That would be something to mouth off about.

We have developed a way to increase productivity of the select breeds we chose to consume. Not your thing? So be it, no snarky comments from me about your personal choice of what does and doesn't go in your stomach.

I have other far more important things to worry about on this planet.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I agree that it can be tiresome and aggravating, but even if I were to give up veganism, I'd still read the ingredients. I find it far more aggravating to turn a package of bread over and see 40 lines of ingredients. *** is that about? Bread, one of the most simple prepared foods possible seems to be a dumping ground for all sorts of crap. Bread: flour, water & yeast(or other culture). Optionally, salt and maybe some other grains/seeds. The other 38 and a half lines are complete junk.

Ok, I'll get off my high horse/rant now.

I'm kind of half vegan these days. It is much easier now than it was last time I made a run at it (early 90's). There are Whole Foods everywhere, which has forced Safeway, Nob Hill etc to start carrying more unadulterated food and organic stuff. I also make much more money than I did 15 years ago, so I dont have to worry about my food budget vs vegan choices. I just buy the spectrum naturals or some other brand that I know doesnt put garbage in their products.
Bread is good one though. Why on earth are their so many ingredients? flour water yeast salt. Maybe add some honey and some vegetable oil, but all those conditioners, preservatives etc. Yuck.
I may not be 100% vegan, but I am 100% free of dye, preservatives, corn syrup and petro-chemicals.

 

[JoseNeville]

I only mentioned two(not one) studies because I did not feel the need to provide an exhaustive list. I only included two well known studies.
Also, the information in the China Study was arrived at through rigorous observation and peer review. It was actually based on a real scientific research project called the Cornell-Oxford-China study(I think...). That study was a peer-reviewed meta-study which includes information obtained though several smaller peer-reviewed research projects.
I understand that you promote a point that ethical vegetarian/veganism is a good thing. Great. But, without providing any arguments other than your own personal viewpoint, you are dismissive of research that provides evidence(doesn't prove; proof is extraordinarily hard in this field) that vegetarianism is a biologically superior system. So, I have provided scientific evidence for a vegetarian diet. Please provide scientific evidence against.

I will check your study, and again you misunderstood my argument, I didn't say anything against, I say that there is not evidence in favor.

 

[MJ5150]

I find it far more aggravating to turn a package of bread over and see 40 lines of ingredients. *** is that about? Bread, one of the most simple prepared foods possible seems to be a dumping ground for all sorts of crap. Bread: flour, water & yeast(or other culture). Optionally, salt and maybe some other grains/seeds. The other 38 and a half lines are complete junk.

I recommend you check out Dave's Killer Bread. It is not available where we live now, so we have it shipped to us.

-Mike

 

[UncleFluffy]

I recommend you check out Dave's Killer Bread. It is not available where we live now, so we have it shipped to us.

-Mike

I'll repost Invalid Link Removed as well.

(You can replace some of the white flour with wholewheat flour, but if you use too much you may need to add a little extra gluten).

 

[MatticusMania]

We have developed a way to increase productivity of the select breeds we chose to consume.

We have, but at what expense? And for what purpose? Of course, its every individuals responsibility to regulate their own diet based on their needs, but the over abundance of that increased productivity has lead this nation to consume far more meat than is necessary.
When guests at a wedding complain over a vegetarian menu, because they will have to eat one meal without meat, it shows to me that too many people are overconsuming.
And then we have the whole process of factory farming these animals to the detriment of our own enviroment. Raising cows & pigs & chickens certainly aint what it used to be.

 

[DwaynieAD]

everyone go back to hunter/gatherer

white-tail deer with some wild raspberries for me

 

[electracoyote]

but the over abundance of that increased productivity has lead this nation to consume far more meat than is necessary.

I would counter this by saying people over-consume meat products through avarice and ignorance.

And I think you alluded to that. The individual is responsible for their diet independant of the availability of certain food products.

You can't blame the abundance of anything for the abuse of that thing.

And the whole environmental issue is another can of worms I'll not help you open, it affects countless industries and has far more to do with man not being smart about the environment than the livestock industry or vegetarianism.