Trying Vegetarianism for a week or so

[mrbell321]

I will check your study, and again you misunderstood my argument, I didn't say anything against, I say that there is not evidence in favor.

I did not misunderstand. You originally said (and just restated) that there was no evidence. I said there was and I provided 2 references for it. Given that I have provided evidence to the contrary of your statements, it is your turn to provide evidence that my evidence is incorrect, if you can.

 

[mrbell321]

You can't blame the abundance of anything for the abuse of that thing.

In this case, I would say that the two are completely intertwined. People began agriculture in order to sustain themselves better. This lead to more agriculture, which leads to more abuse, which leads to more agriculture.

And the whole environmental issue is another can of worms I'll not help you open, it affects countless industries and has far more to do with man not being smart about the environment than the livestock industry or vegetarianism.

OK, so the environmental impact of the livestock industry is a symptom of man's ignorance. How do you treat cause(ignorance) when half the country refuses to admit there is even a problem?

 

[electracoyote]

In this case, I would say that the two are completely intertwined. People began agriculture in order to sustain themselves better. This lead to more agriculture, which leads to more abuse, which leads to more agriculture.

Have you stopped to think about how many food products people abuse and over-use? Do you think limiting the production of all those food products is really the solution?

I certainly don't.

OK, so the environmental impact of the livestock industry is a symptom of man's ignorance. How do you treat cause(ignorance) when half the country refuses to admit there is even a problem?

Like I said, you're on your own. Discussing this would not be germaine to the thread topic and cause a huge de-rail. I'm not helping you with that.

 

[aborgman]

We have, but at what expense? And for what purpose? Of course, its every individuals responsibility to regulate their own diet based on their needs, but the over abundance of that increased productivity has lead this nation to consume far more meat than is necessary.

Not lead, allowed.

It isn't only far more meat than is necessary, it's also

...far more sugar.

...far more salt.

...far more fat.

...far more starch.

Etc.

 

[aborgman]

everyone go back to hunter/gatherer

white-tail deer with some wild raspberries for me

Probably 90% of the ground meat we eat at my house is venison I shot...

 

[DwaynieAD]

Probably 90% of the ground meat we eat at my house is venison I shot...

i trap all my own raspberries.

but in seriousness, i grew up eating alot of elk and venison. i enjoy pheasant and dove. caribou isn't bad either.

 

[MJ5150]

Just last night I let one of our new New Hampshire friends know that I was a vegetarian, on my way to becoming vegan. She had this stunned look on her face like I just told her a close friend died, then she asked me....."what do you eat then?"

It totally reminded me of this thread when we talked about that. So I replied to her....everything else.

-Mike

 

[DwaynieAD]

Just last night I let one of our new New Hampshire friends know that I was a vegetarian, on my way to becoming vegan. She had this stunned look on her face like I just told her a close friend died, then she asked me....."what do you eat then?"

It totally reminded me of this thread when we talked about that. So I replied to her....everything else.

-Mike

my food poos on ur food

 

[MatticusMania]

You can't blame the abundance of anything for the abuse of that thing.

No, the abundance is not to blame for the abuse, but I'd say its a contributing factor. Without that abundance people would not have the means for overconsumption.

And the whole environmental issue is another can of worms I'll not help you open, it affects countless industries and has far more to do with man not being smart about the environment than the livestock industry or vegetarianism.

Now, Im certainly not saying that factory farming is the sole contributor of our enviromental woes, and I think you know that, but that industry is certainly not taking any measures to contribute less.

Not lead, allowed.

It isn't only far more meat than is necessary, it's also

...far more sugar.

...far more salt.

...far more fat.

...far more starch.

Etc.

Ok, allowed may have been a better word, but said allowance is what has lead to such abuse, IMO.
And I agree, that meat is not the only food that is being overconsumed.

Just last night I let one of our new New Hampshire friends know that I was a vegetarian, on my way to becoming vegan. She had this stunned look on her face like I just told her a close friend died, then she asked me....."what do you eat then?"

Its funny, I love when people ask this. I simply ask them if they consume meat and nothing else. I'll ask, when youre not eating meat, what do you eat? Thats what I eat.

my food poos on ur food

It also eats my food for sustenance.

 

[DwaynieAD]

It also eats my food for sustenance.

see, I'm eating the problem

 

[mrbell321]

Have you stopped to think about how many food products people abuse and over-use? Do you think limiting the production of all those food products is really the solution?

I certainly don't.

You're probably right. It's not a solution... I would see it as a recognition of the problem, tho. What is said to me most often(even more often that "what do you eat?") is "I don't want to know". Most people don't want to know there's anything to worry about because it might make their life slightly less comfortable. That's probably the most frustrating position that most people take.

Like I said, you're on your own. Discussing this would not be germaine to the thread topic and cause a huge de-rail. I'm not helping you with that.

Alright.

 

[electracoyote]

@Matti and mrbell:

In a free United States, where people should largely be allowed to make their own choices, education is the key--not regulation and mandates to cut production on food stuffs. If you think something is harmful, you educate people about the harms. We shouldn't take away the right to choose.

Remember Prohibition? Didn't work out so well, did it...

For the record, I happen to agree that the average American eats far too much protein, and I am even more alarmed at how many Americans eschew fruits, vegetables, and healthy grains.

But I have no intention of supporting any kind of regulation on what people put in their stomachs, or the production of those consumables. That is very much over-reaching in my book.

 

[Kaa]

@Matti and mrbell:

In a free United States, where people should largely be allowed to make their own choices, education is the key--not regulation and mandates to cut production on food stuffs. If you think something is harmful, you educate people about the harms. We shouldn't take away the right to chose.

Remember Prohibition? Didn't work out so well, did it...

For the record, I happen to agree that the average American eats far too much protein, and I am even more alarmed at how many Americans eschew fruits, vegetables, and healthy grains.

But I have no intention of supporting any kind of regulation on what people put in their stomachs, or the production of those consumables. That is very much over-reaching in my book.

I don't think you're going to see any "bathtub cows" if meat were prohibited.

While I agree that educating people would be probably the best way, some either adamantly refuse to be informed, reject the information, or just don't care.

How do we battle apathy and deliberate ignorance?

 

[electracoyote]

I don't think you're going to see any "bathtub cows" if meat were prohibited.

I get what you're saying, but there would be a strong push back in some form or another.

While I agree that educating people would be probably the best way, some either adamantly refuse to be informed, reject the information, or just don't care.

How do we battle apathy and deliberate ignorance?

How about this: Live and Let Live

Funny how the "save the world, make it a better place" types sometimes forget the most basic principles of having respect for each other.

 

[MatticusMania]

I think youre misunderstanding where Im coming from electra. Im not talking about regulation or making peoples choices for them at all. And I absolutely agree that people need to be more educated about what they consume, but the fact remains is that said education is left to the individual, and most people dont care enough to do so.

My point in bringing up the factory farming industry wasnt to say that it needs more regulations, I was just making a simple statement that the industry as a whole is in a state of overproduction, and that in itself is more taxing on our environment than need be. I recognize this, and Im not calling for regulation, but rather choose not to support that industry. What other people choose to eat is not really my business, and I would never make it so.

And like you, I too think "that the average American eats far too much protein" and find it odd that a lot of Americans do "eschew fruits, vegetables, and healthy grains."

 

[electracoyote]

but the fact remains is that said education is left to the individual

I don't believe that is the fact.

I can cite lots of evidence of many organizations, both public and private, that have taken it upon themselves to provide health and nutrition education.

 

[MJ5150]

How about this: Live and Let Live

That usually works, but where it gets sideways is when the people who do chose to be informed and make smart decisions end up shouldering part of the financial burden for the ignorant ones who refuse to be educated and thus make foolish decisions that contribute to health issues.

-Mike

 

[electracoyote]

That usually works, but where it gets sideways is when the people who do chose to be informed and make smart decisions end up shouldering part of the financial burden for the ignorant ones who refuse to be educated and thus make foolish decisions that contribute to health issues.

-Mike

Freedom has a price.

We have all agreed to help shoulder each other's burdens in countless ways.

And you'd have a long way to go to prove that eating a hamburger constitutes a "foolish decision."

 

[Kaa]

I get what you're saying, but there would be a strong push back in some form or another.



How about this: Live and Let Live

Funny how the "save the world, make it a better place" types sometimes forget the most basic principles of having respect for each other.

Well since we all have just this one planet out of the entire reaches of space, it's not a matter of "live and let live" it's a matter of this is yourneed to eat meat, despite all the science is helping to kill our planet. (Not "you" as in electracoyote)

It's the classic "second hand smoke argument" you can't control where the smoke goes so it's not your perogative to make others smell it. Factory farms are the #1 cause of greenhouse gas, so it's not like it's just causing the "meat eater" planet harm, but mine too.

That said, the "live and let live" stance just won't cut it.

 

[MJ5150]

Freedom has a price.

We have all agreed to help shoulder each other's burdens in countless ways.

And you'd have a long way to go to prove that eating a hamburger constitutes a "foolish decision."

Oh come on, you know what I mean.

No, I have not agreed to pay increased health insurance premiums because some fat slob doesn't know how to stop eating fast food and soda pop.

-Mike