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Tube Rolling Advice: EBS Fafner II

Bassgeer

Bassgeer

Nov 6, 2011
1,257
2,369
Canada
www.houseofpines.com
#1
Howdy folks,

Looking for some advice on tube rolling. I have no experience with what preamp tubes offer different flavours.

I have a Fafner II which uses a ECC83/12AX7A tube in the preamp for drive. I find the stock tube to be a bit fuzzy / mushy in the lows, resulting in a more "old school" or vintage drive sound.

I'm looking to replace it with a tube that will maximize clarity, focus, tightness, bite, and crispness of the drive. Something more glasslike and clanky than the current wooly or fuzzy feel.

This is the stock tube:

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Thanks in advance!
 
#2
While I've never used that exact amp, in my experience you're not going to get such dramatic changes in overall tone or character by replacing like-for-like tubes. i.e. changing one brand of 12AX7 for another 12AX7.

You might end up getting some suggestions that play out the way you want, but IMO the "tone benefits" of tube rolling is mostly marketing hype and generally too subtle to be spending any real money chasing or expecting dramatic changes in overall character of the amp.

Where you do see more dramatic changes is if you want to reduce the overall gain of the stage, you can swap the 12AX7 for a lower-gain tube like 12AY7 or 5751. This will, in turn, affect the tone of the amp, but it's more about gain staging effects and less about changes to the overall tone or response of the amp.

Any $100 off-the-shelf overdrive or distortion pedal will get you 10x further than tube swapping. Heck, even changing your strings will have more of an impact than tube rolling does.

Again, only my direct experience.
 
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#3
Some circuits respond to tube rolling and some do not. When a circuit does respond, the results tend to be subtle. I have no idea if your amp will respond or not.

The description you provide sounds pretty consistent with the tone I often hear with circuits running the JJ ECC83. It often produces I sound I perceive as sort of mid-rangy with very little HF or LF extension. Also it often has sort of a gritty quality like it's on the verge of breaking up.

I suggest trying a current production Tung Sol 12AX7. This is a big sounding tube that tends to be fairly hard and punchy. I also tends to accentuate clank. I am not certain how well it drives. While I have rolled it, it tends to push the tone in the opposite direction of what I want. I usually prefer the high mids to be soft/compressed rather than hard and clanky...one of my favorite tubes for V1 in bass amps is the current production Mullard ECC83.

Another tube I suggest trying is a standard Gold Lion ECC83 (the Sino variant). In my limited experience, this tube is really great for drive. FYI I like the B759 version of the Gold Lion better for clean.

If you can find a Shuguang ECC83B, it should be pretty similar to the standard Gold Lion. Shuguang stopped making tubes for several years in 2012 I believe. AFAIK they recently started production again, but I have tried any of the current offerings.

I like the JJ long plate ECC803S a lot better than the short plate ECC83S. The ECC803S seems to be fairly even and have a bit more high and low extension. Also rather than being gritty it has a quality that I perceive as sort of a shimmer in the mids. However being a long plate, it will be more sensitivity mechanical shock, which means it has a higher tendency to rattle in high-gain circuits.
 
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#5
Clarity, focus, tightness, bite and crispness are big asks from a single 12ax7. You will likely spend a lot of money trying and never find what you’re looking for. As mentioned above, using a pedal for your dirt is far more effective and will give you tonal flexibility independent of your amp’s circuit.
IMO the abilities of a 12ax7 in a preamp circuit are often overstated in a company’s ad copy and should be taken with a grain of salt.
By your description of tone something from Darkglass either in a pedal or preamp form would be worth looking into.
 
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#7
agedhorse said:
My suggestion is that you be careful to avoid breaking something that is not currently broken.
Click to expand...

Great to hear you weigh in Andy. Like I said, I have very little experience with rolling tubes, outside of reading people's anecdotes on TB, which is no replacement for experience, data, or my own observations.

Just to understand your comment better, are you suggesting that swapping in a different brand of ECC83/12AX7A could do damage to the amp? Or more so that the change might not give the results I am looking for?

I am only considering swapping tubes because I suspect this one might be shot. I am pretty sure it is the original tube from 2014 when the amp was manufactured, and I have no idea how many hours the original owner put on this amp. Listening to online demos (I know, not the best source of information) the drive sounds I am getting are significantly mushier, wooly, and fuzzy, whereas every other function and setting on the amp sounds very similar to what I am hearing from the demo videos.

I can pick up a Tung Sol 12AX7 for $35 locally, so am considering trying that

Roland GR 88 said:
Clarity, focus, tightness, bite and crispness are big asks from a single 12ax7. You will likely spend a lot of money trying and never find what you’re looking for. As mentioned above, using a pedal for your dirt is far more effective and will give you tonal flexibility independent of your amp’s circuit.
IMO the abilities of a 12ax7 in a preamp circuit are often overstated in a company’s ad copy and should be taken with a grain of salt.
By your description of tone something from Darkglass either in a pedal or preamp form would be worth looking into.
Click to expand...

I have plenty of drive options (Darkglass Anagram), so I am well covered in that respect. I would mainly use the drive channel on the Fafner for those instances where I didn't want to haul the pedalboard along to a gig.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
 
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#8
I see damaged tube sockets, stripped screws, etc. from tube rolling experiments gone wrong with rough handling.

My vote is that if it’s working properly, leave it alone. Tubes last a lot longer than most folks assume.
 
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