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Tuner snobs?

#21
I seldom had to tune during a gig with a bass.

I always made sure my strings were broke in
before a gig if I possibly could.

Most of the basses I've had seemed to stay
in tune

If I saw someone tune more than once, I
would suspect tuner problems or hearing
problems. You know, stuff happens. Or
maybe they just like to play with their
tuners. That is if he didn't play like too
hard.

Guitars are a different story,

Tabdog
 
#23
There surely ARE differences between tuners in smoothness and accuracy that make tuning easier and more stable, and durability.

However, (there is always a however) modern manufacturing technology enables even the cheap tuners to be made well. I feel that there is less difference between the quality of cheap and expensive tuners than there was say, 20 years ago.

Again, the old thoughts tend to linger in this industry.
 
#24
As far as tuners being more important to guitarists, I think he meant that they have to mess with them a lot more because of string bending and such. I would doubt that it has anything to do with the actual tuner. Guitar strings are much finer too which probably lends to them stretching out of tune more often. I agree that with the bass, playing in tune is very important.
 
#25
The only time I changed my tuners were when one had a plastic grommet thing broken off between the key and the body, and probably some other damage that I couldn't see (I think it was dropped on that tuner or hit hard against something before I owned it) and that one did slip all the time, and was becoming a problem

But I wouldn't change tuners if there wasn't a problem or if I was wanting to change hardware color or something
 
#27
IMO, most of the inexpensive tuning keys work okay (as long as they don't have alot of play or rattle), but on fender basses, i think that some people are just used to having their tuners look and operate exactly like they did on their vintage ones, be it the kluson reversed type, or the later CBS style, and i guess that i'm one of those 'people'. ;)

that said, gotoh's res-o-lites are my favorite on fender basses.
 
#28
I have experienced noticeable differences in tuner quality.

The tuners on my squire bronco are ok, but the hipshots on my Mike Lull bass are far superior. It's just easier to tune up the Lull : the gear ratio is greater so the same turn has a more fine adjustment, and the friction of the tuner is consistent over 360 degrees. My stock Squire tuners have a lower gear ratio so turns have a greater effect, which make sit easier to overshoot/undershoot that exact pitch. Also, as you turn the squires knobs a full 360 degrees, certain ranges of the turn have more or less friction, contributing to inaccuracy while tuning up.

But really it's a minute inconvenience: once the squire is in pitch they are reasonably stable. It just takes an extra minute to get it spot on. Normally a non-issue. But live , trying to tune up before the next count off, I prefer something that gets me there quicker and more reliably.
 
#29
More expensive tuners have tighter tolerances between the worm and cog, have cleaner spring plate stampings and have posts that resist binding when under load from string pull. Knowing how a tuner works allows the user to modify and refine the less expensive ones to function better than when new.

That being said most modern tuners will function adequately, I find most tuning issues to be a result of nut and saddle slot binding as well as user error.

To date my most reliable and easiest to tune basses are my headless with pull type tuners and minimal non-speaking string lengths.
 
#30
Back when I was young, there were plenty of cheap basses sporting crappy machine heads that looked like oversized units from an acoustic guitar. They tended to slippage or simply backing up under tension, and after a while they just refused to hold a tune for more than a minute or so if that long. At that time there was really something to the idea that cheap basses had crappy tuners. Once our friends to the east became involved in the mass production of lower priced goods for the US consumer market, and had no qualms whatever about making direct knockoffs of the best American craftsmanship and innovation had to offer, even the bargain basement basses had passable machine heads on them. They may not last as long because they were made from cast zinc rather than steel, or had junk material in their bushings and binding washers, but they looked good and lasted a while, and most importantly to their makers where cheaper to produce than a unit that looked identical but happened to be made to last a lifetime rather than a year or so.

Fast forward to the last 10 years and thanks to the dirt cheap labor now available in emerging 3rd world countries where just about everything is mass produced these days, the only real concern is consistency of quality due to shoddy QA programs. It's not a matter of a certain brands/types being better, it's become a crapshoot where quality will vary widely from production batch to production batch.

This is why so many makes and models vary so much within their model series, because substandard components get passed right down the line just like the good items. It's no longer a matter of brand being an assurance of quality as it's pretty much an accepted fact that about 10% of everything produced in emerging nations will be junk, so the trick is to buy stuff with a solid domestic support system in place to cover you when you become the unlucky one who winds up with an item from that 10% body of crap.
 
#31
I bought a squier AFN P cheap strictly to modd. I put in fralins, 62 RI electronics, switchcraft, 3 ply PG, Ashtray, set screw knobs, and labella flats. This bass is sweet, and I've learned a lot about modds and setups. I've been looking for an excuse to change the tuners and bridge, especially when I see bargains. BUT, I cannot see where either would buy me anything except installation experience, because the bass stays tuned for days, and the tone is awesome. I will probably UG anyway when I find deals, only because I can't leave well enough alone. Since I'm currently not playing live anymore, I get bored. On this same note, I personally can't see where a CV or VM neck is any better than my AFN. Have I spent too much money on an AFN? You bet!!! But I love this bass.
 
#32
I've had many basses from cheapo to midrange. The only tuners I actively disliked were those on my '02 Amer. Dlx Jazz. They all felt gritty and rough, but the A tuner would bind and then jump making it difficult to fine tune. This was a pristine bass with sparkly tuners, mind you.

I do have a favorite tuner though - the tapered-shaft Schallers they put on EBMM and G&L. The look, feel and function is flawless.
 
#33
Nikoubis said:
This. Tuning stability/accuracy issues on cheaper basses are encountered more often because of poorly cut and slotted nuts than anything else.
Click to expand...

I think you've hit the nail on the head! I've seen all these statements about "crap" tuners that won't hold tune. Personally I've never seen a tuner that "didn't hold tune" except the friction fit wooden peg type! They all have a worm gear drive that never slips! So obviously the statements come from mistakenly believing problems with the nut and friction of the strings in it are due to the tuning machines! If the strings are sticking in the nut, I don't care how expensive your tuning machines are, tuning to and holding a pitch will be a chore.

But as it turns out I DO own "crappy tuners". And no surprise they happen to be on some of my SX basses. Do they "hold a tune?" Sure they do. Then why are they "crappy". They are crappy because some are loose and some are very tight to turn. Have I changed them? No. Because even though some are harder to turn than others, they do work and do tune the bass and do hold a tune. How often do you tune a bass anyway? The only reason I'd change them is to get lighter ones or some other cosmetic reason.
 
#37
packhowitzer said:
My 08 geddy lee was made before Fender decided to put "Fender Stamped" tuners on that model. I don't know if there is a manufacturing difference in stamped and not stamped per se, but I can say that my no-name tuners were awful. after being brought to tune under tension there was almost 10 degrees of play in the tuner paddle. almost like it was loose or not seated well in the gear. I upgraded to hopshots and have been happy ever since. When picking up any new GL with the Fender stamp on it, i have not noticed this extra play in the tuners. maybe i got a bad one or something. but Fender did go up 200 dollars on the price between my model year and the 09s. Maybe the higher quality tuners were part of that increase.
Click to expand...


I had a similar experience with the tuners on my Geddy. When I put a D-Tuner on, the difference between he two was obvious. I got matching set shortly after.
 
#38
I never had a problem with bass tunes except rust and smoothness from neglect (basses not being touched for a long time and exposed to moist air). But holding tune during a show, I never had a problem with any of my basses or any other that have played.

Guitar tuners on the other hand can be terrible. I have an electric guitar that I can twist the tuning machine a quarter turn and it won't do any thing.....:rollno:
 
#39
Believe it or not, there are people out there that think the tuner and the weight of it specifically effects tone. I am not one of them.

I have two basses (a 2010 Squier CV Jazz, and 1993 Korean Squier P-Bass). The tuners on the older Squier are licensed by Schaller and are a little looser when tuning while the no name tuners on the CV are relatively tight. Both seem to stay in tune equally well.
 

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