Tweeter Diaphragm Problem - Aguilar DB 212 4ohm

[VirtuallyReal]

to VirtuallyReal:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find you describing anything other than hiss in any of your posts.

Are the high frequencies distorting, or is it just the hiss?
If so, there's probably nothing wrong with the tweeter.

That's the conclusion i got today: the excessive hiss has nothing to do with a tweeter failure. aperently is something related to the amp... I guess.

If so, what can cause excesive hiss on the amp?

 

[Bassflute]

My cabinet is an Aguilar DB 212, any idea about what type of high pass do they use? Aguilar cabinets are not precisely "cheap"... so...

comparatively speaking, the tweeter and the crossover they use are quite cheap. But it also sounds like you are pushing it WAY too hard.

And this is from a former Aguilar owner before you start blasting me...I lived with 2 of those tweeters for a while....

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[VirtuallyReal]

Pushing it WAY too hard? before this post, i used it at 3 on the master volume, and 5 on the gain... that's room level volume... now im using an even lower setting: 2 - 3 on the gain and 6 - 7 on the master... maybe you are referring to the attenuator lever, which was between 80 and 100% (fully open) due to the comments of some TB users regarding the potential risk of setting the attenuator too low... but now i use it between 20 and 40%...

How come this levels are considered as "pushing it WAY too hard"?

seems like you guys have different opinions on this subject...

What i'll do for now is just disconnect the tweeter... until i get a definitive answer from Aguilar.

Still, i appreciate the insights from all of you guys!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

How come this levels are considered as "pushing it WAY too hard"?

Because you said that you'd blown at least two diaphragms. It turns out that you didn't, that your complaint was hiss, and that's an amp issue to begin with, not a speaker issue. But possibly not everyone has realized that yet. There are some who read only half of what's been said before putting in their two cents worth.

 

[Bassflute]

I missed the part about him replacing diaphragms because they were 'hissing'...

Yeah, that's too bad no one told you about the amp thing till now. Those are fairly scratchy tweeters, prone to hissing like that. I had similar issues when I had my GS112's with an Eden WT800 - those tweeters have almost a piezo kind of top end to them.

BTW, what kind of basses are you using, and are you soloing a front/back single-coil pickup, or are you using an active bass with a preamp? Anything in the effects loop?

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Doug Parent]

comparatively speaking, the tweeter and the crossover they use are quite cheap. But it also sounds like you are pushing it WAY too hard.

And this is from a former Aguilar owner before you start blasting me...I lived with 2 of those tweeters for a while....

Cheers,
Cameron

Cheap tweeter ?? I respectfully disagree.
Cheap compared to a B&C or JBL maybe? Your going to have a hard time convincing me that Dave@Aguilar is cutting corners that Nick Epifani or Jim Bergantino aren't because that same tweeter is used by both boutique manufacturers.

The cross-over engineering is the variable here as far as I have seen. In defense of Aguilar, I have been slapping and popping bass for years and never blew a tweeter in my Aguilar cabinets once.

 

[Musicman20]

My DB212 is great, no plastic like piercing high end.

Sounds like it's your amp, hope you get it sorted!

 

[Bassflute]

Cheap tweeter ?? I respectfully disagree.
Cheap compared to a B&C or JBL maybe? Your going to have a hard time convincing me that Dave@Aguilar is cutting corners that Nick Epifani or Jim Bergantino aren't because that same tweeter is used by both boutique manufacturers.

The cross-over engineering is the variable here as far as I have seen. In defense of Aguilar, I have been slapping and popping bass for years and never blew a tweeter in my Aguilar cabinets once.

it is. They are plastic, and sound quite harsh and brittle compared to the stuff I have now. And I know Jim uses them in his AE line...and Epifani uses it in theirs, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Doug Parent]

I do understand and agree, the metal horn flares sound great, coupled with the Eminence (I think it's the 2002) 1" compression driver sounds really nice! I prefer metal horns over plastic any day but I understand because of costs that they go with the P-Audio instead. The older Berg HT series had the big Eminence horns and they were the best.

 

[raveniskcrow]

Ok this is the 2nd time i have to replace the tweeter diaphragm on my Aguilar DB 212, and at $50 each, is a recurring problem i would like to solve permanently.
So, in your experience, what could be causing this recurring problem?

I only use this cabinet with my Aguilar AG500 head, connected via a Speakon cable.

Keep in mind i use this amp mainly at home, and have never (ever) exceeded 3 on the master volume level, and 5 on the gain, with a flat EQ most of the time, and neither of the deep and bright switches engaged.

Also, i always use the -10db switch, since all of my basses are active. The tweeter attenuator is usually set between 80-100 (depending on how many "hiss" noise im willyng to tolerate, as this amps tend to produce a certain degree of noise)

Also, all of my instrument cables have circuit breakers on them (mogami & planet waves), so not a single time this unit has experiences clicks or pops due to and improper connection or defective cable.

I would like to know all the "possible suspects" on this matter... Could it be somethig wrong with the amp?

Is there a way one of my basses could be causing this? I ask this because my pedulla mvp-5 is producing some weird noise when i use it on the bridge pickup, so right now im only using it on the neck pickup (is a PJ mvp)

I took the diaphragm out and noticed some scattered dark spots in it... Compared it with the diaphragm picture on the Aguilar web store and they definitely look different... When i move the diaphragm so it makes contrast towards the ambient light, theese spots looks like oil marks. Structurally, it looks ok, but im no expert so i have no idea how a blown tweeter diaphragm should look like.

Obviously the problem affects the tweeter, its been the victim twice already... all i want to know is were to look for the true source of this recurring inconvenience.

 

[raveniskcrow]

I used the TH500 with two SL-112 cabinets. Mainly I use one cabinet and I used my equipment almost exactly the way you described in you post. After leaving it sit for about six months I plugged it in and I heard the tweeter crap out. I was very surprised as the volume was low and the tweeter was set very low. I had a SW big berther for ten years and never had a problem with a tweeter. After pulling the diaphragm I notice that there was no protection cap, 10 or 15 mf in line to protect the tweeter. I am not sure if they have compensated for it in the circuitry. I watched a youtube session that talked about tweeter protection "
PROTECT YOUR TWEETERS! Capacitors and WHY you need them"

I am not endorsing this site and he is mainly talking about stereo tweeters but the principle is the same. Some of this stuff I remembered from electronics school way back in the day. And btw, my crossover. In fact if I blow the tweeter again I will probably visit the crossover next. I am seriously considering putting in a cap to protect the tweeter, can't hurt as it is out of warranty. The real issue is that it is difficult to trouble shoot the circuit without the schematic that aguilar doesn't provide. So if you are not real good with crossover circuitry you could be wasting money swapping out parts without knowing the real cause.

 

[raveniskcrow]

Filter is not there to protect the tweeter, it's there to modify the sound and control the spectrum content going to the tweeter.
You can't sacrifice the primary function of the filter to achieve the secondary function.
Fourth order would be a very steep slope and would be a bad choice for our cabinet.
For other systems you might choose a differently.

Hope this is helpful.

Dave

So Dave, I didn't see any filter on the tweeter. Are you saying you are using no "order" protection for the tweeter. Why are these tweeters failing with no duress? First order filter set properly would give some protection to the tweeter w/degradation to the sound?