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Tweeter vs No Tweeter

#41
Here's the weird part. The electric bass has been around for over 55 years. It has been used for rock, country, R&B, jazz, and even for backing up folk singers. And some how, for THIRTY YEARS, these bass players did it without any tweeters. Were bass speakers better in the old days? Were recording studio electronics better back in 1950 or 1970? Probably not. It is truly amazing that bass players were able to do it without any stinking tweeters. ;)
 
#42
Here is what might be considered a happy medium in the tweeter versus no tweeter debate:

0b_12_sb.jpg


;)

Later, Tom.
 
#43
Joe Beets said:
Here's the weird part. The electric bass has been around for over 55 years. It has been used for rock, country, R&B, jazz, and even for backing up folk singers. And some how, for THIRTY YEARS, these bass players did it without any tweeters. Were bass speakers better in the old days? Were recording studio electronics better back in 1950 or 1970? Probably not. It is truly amazing that bass players were able to do it without any stinking tweeters. ;)
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...and a Ford T is still the best car?
 
#44
Joe Beets said:
Whenever I hear that slappin' smackin' and poppin' coming out of a bass I have to wonder. Did the guy start out as a guitar player? Let me guess. He wasn't good enough on guitar, so he switched to bass so he could still be in the band. But he really wished he was a lead guitar player. So he adjusts his rig for a trebly, twangy, banjo tone. Am I impressed with all the slappin' and poppin'? Not a bit. Can the guy play a walking bass line to something with a chord progression? Can the guy build some interesting melodic phrases using musical notes? Nope. So out comes the smackin' and poppin' and for that you need tweeters. :D
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I have to disagree with you on the slappin and poppin comment. With players like Victor Wooten and Flea, the funk style bass has been taken to a whole new level. It is now being blended very well with the walking bass style. It is no longer just a way for players to show off there hand speed. Just listen to some Bella Fleck and the Flecktones. Now that is some beautiful music.
 
#45
Joe Beets said:
It is truly amazing that bass players were able to do it without any stinking tweeters. ;)
Click to expand...

This little anecdote is an open confession of a prior attitude I used to have on a similar subject. it dosen't infer that Joe is in anyway similiar to me, but, as a bassist it marked an important stage in my development. Thus I feel it may be of value to my bass brethern of all walks of life.

I recall back in my youth (1974) when I first heard some guy slapping on the bass. I was astounded and had no idea what he was doing. I mean this guy wasen't even REAL to me. You know? Like some kind of alien.

Me and another bass player were huddled in a corner being thoroughly intimidated by this "monster" It was obvious to US that we were completely overwhelmed and couldn't even come close to competing with him for gigs, or attention, etc. This guy was flailing away with a crowd of people around him, exhibiting very formidibale technical expertise.

Me and this other bassist at the jam session were utterly impressed and horrified. We both basically started "agreeing" with each other about how "wrong" he was for being so good, and how "right" we were for not knowing slap. That made us feel more comfortable since we were able to become more "seperate" from him and what he was doing. (in other words, by keeping what he was doing in the realm of "unreal" thus not valid, we were more comfortable.

I concluded that being critical of things that others do or use that we ourselves have failed to do ourselves is a way of making ourselves "right" and give us a way to move forward from there. Its a temporary solution.

Unfortunately it leaves us "seperated" and individuated from others in order to "be right" and explains away how and why we failed somehow in our own estimation.

Fortunately I grew up and matured emontionally and intellectually from there and now I can slap too without feeling like I HAVE TO.

I think if your gonna slap, then get the BEST slap tone possible, if your gonna rock and grind, by all means turn the tweeter off. If you have no use for funk, fusion, tapping, etc, then by all means throw your tweeters in the trash or donate them to the "needy tweeter support group" of your choice.

Somewhere, in the world right now......someone needs a tweeter. Don't shun him, for he knows not the error of his ways.
:D
 
#46
tonenazi said:
This little anecdote is an open confession of a prior attitude I used to have on a similar subject. it dosen't infer that Joe is in anyway similiar to me, but, as a bassist it marked an important stage in my development. Thus I feel it may be of value to my bass brethern of all walks of life.

I recall back in my youth (1974) when I first heard some guy slapping on the bass. I was astounded and had no idea what he was doing. I mean this guy wasen't even REAL to me. You know? Like some kind of alien.

Me and another bass player were huddled in a corner being thoroughly intimidated by this "monster" It was obvious to US that we were completely overwhelmed and couldn't even come close to competing with him for gigs, or attention, etc. This guy was flailing away with a crowd of people around him, exhibiting very formidibale technical expertise.

Me and this other bassist at the jam session were utterly impressed and horrified. We both basically started "agreeing" with each other about how "wrong" he was for being so good, and how "right" we were for not knowing slap. That made us feel more comfortable since we were able to become more "seperate" from him and what he was doing. (in other words, by keeping what he was doing in the realm of "unreal" thus not valid, we were more comfortable.

I concluded that being critical of things that others do or use that we ourselves have failed to do ourselves is a way of making ourselves "right" and give us a way to move forward from there. Its a temporary solution.

Unfortunately it leaves us "seperated" and individuated from others in order to "be right" and explains away how and why we failed somehow in our own estimation.

Fortunately I grew up and matured emontionally and intellectually from there and now I can slap too without feeling like I HAVE TO.

I think if your gonna slap, then get the BEST slap tone possible, if your gonna rock and grind, by all means turn the tweeter off. If you have no use for funk, fusion, tapping, etc, then by all means throw your tweeters in the trash or donate them to the "needy tweeter support group" of your choice.

Somewhere, in the world right now......someone needs a tweeter. Don't shun him, for he knows not the error of his ways.
:D
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Hear hear!
 
#48
mat gregory said:
I think horn and tweeter cabs sound too artificial , if you get annoyed with it though you can always just switch the tweeter off.
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Now that I think of it, is that such a good solution? I mean, isn't the cabs with tweeters equiped with some kind of crossover, which mean that if you turn the tweeter completely off, you're getting none of the upper frequencies? Surely my SWR cabs sound like something is missing when I turn the tweeter all the way down.

So maybe the real question isn't so much if you like the high frequencies of the instrument or not, but rather how you want to reproduce them: through a tweeter or through a conventional speaker.
 
#49
Sometimes that's the case. However, I think the Epifani cabs use a filter (I guess it's a low pass filter?), so that the speaker still runs full range, whether the tweeter is on or not. I know that was the case with his original cabs, and it still sounds that way to me with the new UL's. Does anyone know for sure?
 
#50
carl-anton said:
Now that I think of it, is that such a good solution? I mean, isn't the cabs with tweeters equiped with some kind of crossover, which mean that if you turn the tweeter completely off, you're getting none of the upper frequencies? Surely my SWR cabs sound like something is missing when I turn the tweeter all the way down.

So maybe the real question isn't so much if you like the high frequencies of the instrument or not, but rather how you want to reproduce them: through a tweeter or through a conventional speaker.
Click to expand...


I think most mfgs just use a highpass x-over on the tweeter and nothing on the woofer. So even if you turn the tweeter off or all the way down, you are still getting the full range of the woofer which usually tops out at about 3.5k to 5k.
 
#51
brother bean said:
...Just listen to some Bella Fleck and the Flecktones. Now that is some beautiful music.
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Oh-oh: Talk about banjo-tone! From a real banjo, even.

I was just listening to a little Bootsy and a little R. James on my way into work today. I heard plenty of popped notes in that half-hour, but they're the OLD-school pop-sound; I even wonder if Bootsy used FLAT-wound strings - does anyone know? Anyway: there was none of the twangy, clicky, metalic sound of modern popping - just a different dynamic, like the way the note developed as it was actuated and then cut-off.

I think it's a useful and beautiful sound, especially for The Funk.

Joe
 
#53
What you do to your bass is your business. But I prefer music that is made up of actual musical notes. Notes produced by a vibrating string. A string smacking the frets or the fingerboard or a hand smacking the side of an upright bass is percussion. I leave the percussion sounds up to the drummer. I used to play with a trumpet player who could make his horn sound like a bunch of farts in various pitches, and a sax player who could make a sound just like the honk of a Canadian goose. It was very amusing, but is it music? Not to my ears. :D
 
#54
Joe Beets said:
What you do to your bass is your business. But I prefer music that is made up of actual musical notes. Notes produced by a vibrating string. A string smacking the frets or the fingerboard or a hand smacking the side of an upright bass is percussion. I leave the percussion sounds up to the drummer. I used to play with a trumpet player who could make his horn sound like a bunch of farts in various pitches, and a sax player who could make a sound just like the honk of a Canadian goose. It was very amusing, but is it music? Not to my ears. :D
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In certain situations I would have to agree with this, and your previous, highly quoted statement as well. For alot of the music I play I strive to give the note with as little of the "attack" and strive to play as "cleanly" as possible. Notice that I used the words "attack" and "cleanly" in quotes. The bass is not only responsible for the harmonic foundation, but also(in variable degrees) the rythmic pulse of the music. Alot of bassists utilize the "noise"(more quotes) of the attack with their notes to make what they are saying musically richer and add an additional rythmic element to there playing, and it can be very beautiful and musical. If you think about it it isn't alot unlike the middish growl of a Rick or the woody drone of a Series Alembic. These are both additional flavours added to each note that add texture to the lines and are somewhat independent of the note itself, yea it may be a stretch in the respect that you don't require a tweeter, but the principal is what I am going after here. The bottom line is some players and some styles CAN benefit from a more percussive style of playing, others not...tweeter optional!
 
#55
lowphatbass said:
The bottom line is some players and some styles CAN benefit from a more percussive style of playing, others not...tweeter optional!
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Well put. The crisp leading edge of the note can help define the note when its appropriate to have that sound.

Technology advances. Things DO change. Some People like the change. People use the newer technology to redefine the art form and it's tools in the process. Evolution. Expansion. Choices. Diversity. New viewpoints.
Some embrace it, some protest against it. As the world turns.
 
#56
Joe Beets said:
Whenever I hear that slappin' smackin' and poppin' coming out of a bass I have to wonder. Did the guy start out as a guitar player? Let me guess. He wasn't good enough on guitar, so he switched to bass so he could still be in the band. But he really wished he was a lead guitar player. So he adjusts his rig for a trebly, twangy, banjo tone. Am I impressed with all the slappin' and poppin'? Not a bit. Can the guy play a walking bass line to something with a chord progression? Can the guy build some interesting melodic phrases using musical notes? Nope. So out comes the smackin' and poppin' and for that you need tweeters. :D
Click to expand...
This is Funny 🤣. There are indeed a few bassists out there like that.
 
#58
Spedracer said:
I'm not a fan of tweeters, but the industry is. Tweeters are great for string noise if that's what you're going for.
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I think it depended an awful lot on your choice of bass, strings, technique, music styles and personal tastes. The industry provides what players ask for.
 
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