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Tweeter vs No Tweeter

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by brother bean, May 19, 2005.

  1. brother bean

    brother bean

    May 23, 2003
    I am looking for a new setup and I am debating on what to get. I like the bergs but I need some opinions. The larger cabs like the NV series only go to 5k and 7k. Do any of you berg lovers feel you are missing any high end from the lack of a tweeter? And has anyone done a side by side comparison with the HT322 and the NV425.
  2. jacove


    Apr 12, 2003
    Aalborg, Denmark
    There is definetely more highs in a tweeter cab like the HT322....The tweeterless cabs like the sealed NV-series are just a whole different cab....If you dig modern tone the HT322 is for you, if you like the more vintage SVT kind of vibe, the NV series is for you.....The NV-series cabs have plenty of highs for my liking, but I'm a more old-school fingerstyle-player...If you are into slapping I'll probably go for the HT322.... :bassist:
  3. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i think any cabinet (tweeter or non) has to be judged seperately. some tweetless cabs have wonderful high end extension, some have goosed highs that sound harsh (esp when popping), and some are just plain muffled.

    ditto for tweet cabs. some sound really sweet and natural, some are harsh and spitting, some have stratospheric highs that are unbeliveable, and some sound terrible.
  4. brother bean

    brother bean

    May 23, 2003
    jacove, I play several different styles from flea funk to church praise songs. So it sounds like the HT322 would be a better choice for me.

    IvanMike, I see you are a Bag End user. Any suggestions of there cabs to try that would compare to the HT322?
  5. msquared


    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City

    I don't feel like I'm missing any highs with my NV610. I was worried about that as well, but then I heard it and was convinced. :) The fundamentals and a lot of overtones happen well before the 7k downpoint, so all that's missing is some really high stuff that is just going to be drowned out by the drummer/guitarist/keyboardist anyway once you get onstage. I'm not a slapper so YMMV.

    One thing I've found with tweeters is that I tend to like it more when there is more than one component handling that upper end, such as with Acme gear. I prefer designed-for-quality-full-range over sub-plus-tweeter. A single tweeter handling that very wide frequency range is just kind of a weird sound to me. Very few of them seem to really "nail it".
  6. kilgoja


    May 26, 2005
    i personally don't like tweeters...i've never bought a cabinet with a tweeter...i can get all the highs i need out of an 8x10 or a 2x15 cabinet...even when slapping...i don't really see the need for a tweeter....i have a mesa boogie 400+ head with a mesa 2x15 cabinet and i can get plenty of high end out of it...too much if i turn it up on the eq....plus you have the pull bright switch on the treble knob and on the input volume knob.....i've just never understood the reason behind a tweeter in a bass cabinet....don't know...i see no need for it...i got plenty of highs out of my ampeg svt and 8x10 cabinet too....of course it might depend on what type of bass you have...i've had a fender american jazz and now i have a stingray....so treble is no problem for me....lol
  7. Bongolation


    Nov 9, 2001
    No Bogus Endorsements
    Bass geekery.

    A traditional backline bass player has no use for them. Bass geeks can't live without 'em. More extraneous junk is always better, particularly if it makes a bass sound less like a bass and more like a synth or a catfight or something...

    Hey, I play with flatwounds so there's nothing happening in that tweeter anyway except a little amp hiss. :D

    I hooked a guitar up to mine two nights ago just to see if the tweeter was even functional. It was. Then I turned it back off. The End.
  8. Joe Beets

    Joe Beets Guest

    Nov 21, 2004
    There is no sound that my bass can make above 2KHZ that I want to hear. If I wanted a thin, twangy, guitar-wanna-be sound, then sure, I'd need a couple of tweeters. But since I play the bass and I want it to sound like a bass, I don't need no STINKIN' tweeters. :eyebrow:
  9. protoz


    Nov 30, 2000
    I never liked my tweeter in teh Avatar I had but it had a poor crossover so that could have been a big reason. I like rumble a lot but not to the point where my cab farts out so I try to go as low as I can which on a 410Delta isn't very low :S
  10. boogiebass


    Aug 16, 2000

    I would revise that to say that Bergie tweets are THE best in the biz! Certainly the best I've heard, in any case. ;)
  11. brother bean

    brother bean

    May 23, 2003
    What brand does Berg use? Hopfully not the standard foster that swr and avatar are using.
  12. boogiebass


    Aug 16, 2000
    Jim calls them "high intelligbility bullet tweeters," often with cast horns. I'm fairly certain they are proprietary designs unique to his cabs and not "standard foster."
  13. kilgoja


    May 26, 2005
    i guess i'm old school.....but "bass" and "tweeter"....don't seem to mix.......it should be "bass" and "subwoofer"...lol
  14. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    If a cab has a tweeter and an attenuater, how could you go wrong? If you don't want it, just turn it off. If you want a tiny little taste, turn it on just a little. If you want lots of high end clarity for tapping and other sensitive techniques, you have it at your disposal. I can't understand why anyone would really want to preclude themselves from these options if variable attenuators are present on most cabs with tweeters.

    Accugroove has tweets which sound WONDERFUL. I can't believe people here speak as if its blasphemy when so many high-end manufacturers include them . . . for a reason.
  15. One day I noticed my Eden 2x10 cab was sounding better than usual. Upon further investigation I found that I had blown the tweeter. Heh, I left it blown. ;)
  16. 44me


    Jun 17, 2002
    Bedford, NH USA
    I agree! I play a P with flats and set the tweeter attenuator about ¼ the way up on my GS212. It’s not like it’s a lot of extra weight to carry around. I think the problem with a lot of tweeters as they try to get too much out of them. For the most part you need them to go too low to pickup where the main drivers leave off. Accugroove is definitely on the right track incorporating mid-bass drivers.

    - John
  17. msquared


    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    Because not all manufacturers do it right like Accugroove, therefore a lot of cabinets sound worse off for it.
  18. Whappo Grande

    Whappo Grande

    Feb 9, 2002
    Sunnyvale, CA.
    Engineer: AccuGroove Speakers & Amps
    Most companies producing bass cabs are using compression horns, bullet tweeters, etc. which were designed for PA systems because they are very efficient (loud), readily available, inexpensive & hey…everybody else is using them. The drawback for some of us players (myself being one) is that they tend to be harsh, brittle, unnatural & to loud.

    Granted, some companies do a better job than others. Our solution was to use two Soft dome, Textile Ferrofluid cooled Tweeters w/ dual neodymium magnets. These offer a non-synthetic non-exaggerated high end that’s always sweet. We use two because we over build everything as to eliminate failures in the field. (One by itself has the same power rating of a compression horn & we use two)

    Then we use self resetting circuit breakers to protect them (as we do our 6” midrange) so the sound is not colored & there is no maintenance. If there’s a chance of failure, they shut down for about 10 seconds & then turn back on by themselves.

    This is only our solution. There might be other options out there that you may find viable as well.

    AccuGroove Speakers, where we don't use compression horns!
  19. Joe P

    Joe P

    Jul 15, 2004
    Milwaukee, WI
    I don't like 'tweeters', but I like HORNS. I use a PA cab - 2X15s and a big'ol 1"-throat horn. I hit the 5Khz high-cut (crossover) on my GK head anyway, so it's not like I like 'sparkly' highs, but the 2Khz-5KHz that does emminate from that horn is smooth and natural - and has nice-and-even 90° dispersion.

    It's the JBL JRX125; it slays for bass. She can really burp when I turn up the 700RBII enough to get the variable-speed fan twirling just a little (maybe 100W or-so?). Once I get that thing up on a sub to cover the 30Hz to 43Hz that I'm deficient in now (AND raise the horn up to above-ear-level): Oh Baby.


    (off-topic) I've been afraid to use the 'degrees' symbol - as I typed after the "90" for "ninety degrees" above - because I don't know if it shows up on non-US computers. Someone let me know if it goofs-up on your screen, will ya?

    In case anyone doesn't know, you get it by holding 'Alt' while typing "0176" on the numeric pad.
  20. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    IME, there are a lot of bass cabs out there with really cruddy tweeters, or with tweeters that were added haphazardly because it was the hot thing to do, but the manufacturer didn't spend the time to engineer the cab/crossover/drivers/etc properly. For such cabs, an attenuator is a blessing, that's for sure.

    But, I have also found a number of brands which did do their homework, and which have very excellent sounding tweeters. I wholeheartedly join in the praise for Jim Bergantino's excellent incorporation of tweeters into (some of) his cabs. He chooses what he feels is the best tweeter for the job (and to the best of my knowledge, he uses at least two different tweets - one for small cabs, like HT112, and one for larger cabs, like HT210/HT115/HT310, etc.). Perhaps more importantly, he really does his homework on the crossover side of things, and achieves a great marriage of tweeter to driver(s). Certainly, Bergantino tweeters/crossovers are among the best in the business.

    I am also quite fond of the silk dome tweeters used by Accugroove and ACME. The are very smooth, and extremely resistant to hiss. I often find myself boosting the highs a bit with these cabs, though, but they respond great to EQ, and the net effect is quite pleasant.

    With regard to Jim's NV line, I think that you would be surprised by the amount of high end information that you can hear. The NV215, with its 6" midrange, is certainly the most upper mid & treble present of the group (and my personal favorite), but if you often play with overdrive/distortion, you may prefer the 610 or 425.

    EA's Wizzy takes a unique approach by using a wizzer cone on its 12" driver. The Wizzy has great high range definition and articulation, but never sounds harsh. Of course, it's not well suited to a super sparkly tone, but I find that I can hear a good deal of upper midrange information. Steve Azola made some "Super Wizzy" 2x12's, which I was lucky enough to pick up. These suckers have it all going on, and all without tweeters!


    But, in the end, there are good and bad choices in both camps. If you do decide to go with Bergantino, though, you really can't go wrong, whether you choose tweets or not.

    Later, Tom.

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