Have you considered ditching the guitarist and about half the songs he's taken from your current set list? Could you get another guitarist to play the songs you're doing?
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Two bands, same tunes
- Thread starter Hammer01
- Start date
I'm not quite sure he's getting bored. His second project did a short (one hour) coming out party in our rehearsal space with a DJ to fill in the rest of the party. That was weeks ago. He hasn't gigged that band out either. I think he likes to play music as we all do, but is not in a hurry (obviously) to gig out any time soon. Lots of talk, no walk. I don't know of anyone else in our area that would "care" to do this kind of music as it's not mainstream, easily learned music. Judging (my opinion) from the hardship we had finding a drummer, then a singer, I'd guess packing this up to find another guitarist would be nearly impossible and a task I would not care to do. I would rather, if this current band goes nowhere, join an existing band that is gigging and go from there. I'm not too caught up in doing this one (proressive rock) genre of music like our guitarist is. Our drummer has said on MANY occasion, "I would rather be doing classic/modern rock than this" when he gets frustrated while learning this harder to master progressive rock. I have no problem with switch to that if the need arises.
Although I have periods when I want to do nothing but pursue music I enjoy, I I find I end up with frustrations like this pretty frequently in those contexts.
Lately. I have decided that I want to play music that is for me -- and the way I intend to do it is either with a solo act, or by hiring musicians as contractors from the get-go. They would be top players, and I would pay them to perform the tunes I have written and a few other tunes I have always wanted to do. These are tunes that either didn't fit the strategy fo the band, or didn't fit the skills or personalities of musicians I currently work with. With progressive rock, I see it more as something a person does for personal fulfillment rather than as a commercial project for a local band.
It's better to be out gigging, making money, and seeing an audience reaction eventually -- that is more sustainable. I would see a situation where:
a) YOu have a band leader with proven gig booking experience.
b) Who is organized at rehearsal
The other factors -- good music, good hang, good money, have been discussed, but I do see these things as partly a function of a good band leader who understands the art of leading a band.
You could get some fulfilment out of this by getting a few tunes down in the prog rock genre, and then have a party at your house or play for free somewhere, and get it videotaped so you have the memory - and then move on.
Well, I received some private texts from the drummer last night. Seems he is feeling the same way as I (he's not as VOCAL with his issues with the guitarist as I) am. He has been discussing the issue of the guitarist using the same music that was supposedly going to make our band "unique" in our area (music no one else is attempting locally) and she told him that it was unacceptable that the guitarist had gotten us all together under the plan that we were going to do music (hard rocking progressive rock) that no one else was doing just to hand the songs we've been rehearsing over to his second project (he already knows the guitar parts, so what does he have to lose???). I know everyone is free in this country to play whatever music they choose with whomever they please. As said previously in some post(s) on this topic, we would be at his convenience competing locally for the same unique songs with his second project. The drummer has informed me as of last night that he is planning on bailing on this project and wants to take myself and our new (I enlisted her off of Craigslist) singer to his rehearsal space and find another guitarist. I would assume we would do something more "mainstream" that would be female vocalist oriented, instead of the (IMO) non marketable progressive rock.
Thanks to all for the constructive input on this post. ROCK ON!!!
Thanks to all for the constructive input on this post. ROCK ON!!!
Unless you play the same venue the same night who cares what songs another band is playing? It happens to us sometimes when two cover bands share a gig, but we then simply agree on replacing some songs so we don't both play the same ones.
You should probably be more concerned with why the guitarist is doing what he is doing, completing your band's lineup and booking some gigs.
You should probably be more concerned with why the guitarist is doing what he is doing, completing your band's lineup and booking some gigs.
If the songs are good songs you should play them. It's not all about what songs you play so much as what you do with them.
It's better to play a few tunes that other bands do, and do them very very well than it is to play a bunch of tunes nobody cares about very very well.
For me, the draw really isn't the music at all. It's getting the chance to mind meld with a fantastic drummer. I'll play mustang Sally all night long if the drummer keeps me engaged.
It's better to play a few tunes that other bands do, and do them very very well than it is to play a bunch of tunes nobody cares about very very well.
For me, the draw really isn't the music at all. It's getting the chance to mind meld with a fantastic drummer. I'll play mustang Sally all night long if the drummer keeps me engaged.
FretNoMore, I guess the problem WE have is that the guitarist wanted US to be unique by choosing songs that no one else is doing. I have always been of the opinion that not a lot of paying patrons are going to be interested in listening to this unique group of tunes. The songs are very good. Just not mainstream, or something most would go out of their way to listen to (obscure). I totally understand that bands will play some of the same tunes as others in the area. That is mostly due to what is popular on rock radio, and perhaps what patrons have requested they learn due to them liking a particular song. We chose tunes that no one else is doing, and now he is doing them with his second project, thus taking away the unique quality we were striving for. The guitarist has not communicated anything (nope, nada, zilch) as of late via computer or phone or in person with any of us regarding me calling him out on this. He has chosen to ignore our disapproval (mostly MY disapproval as the other members agree with me, but don't want to ruffle feathers). We have been rehearsing the tunes with no talk of booking any gigs, although I have also told the guitarist that is what I am doing this for. He agrees, but never does anything with it. So, we keep rehearsing once a week the same tunes over and over. Guitarist does not have a car or a job. Has no way to get his amp/guitars/etc to a gig other than to have one of us drive him there which I've also spoken with him about to no avail. My goal is to gig. Simple. I don't see this arrangement gigging and if it does, it will be more work for others due to having to arrange or assist with transportation. The guitarists lack of communication was pretty much the last straw for me. Whether we (drummer/singer/bass) keep together with another guitarist or not I am going to find a gig to play somewhere in this town. I have practiced/rehearsed for too long not to do something with it at this point in my life.
Sounds like there is a big communication problem ... if the guitarist doesn't even reply then I think the writing is on the wall - you need a new guitar player.
Drummer has a rehearsal space? Free rehearsal space, girl singer, rhythm section together and played together for 18 months? Dump the guitarist, you're going to have guitarists climbing over each other for the opportunity.
Follow the drummer. You will be much happier and out playing in 3 months or less.
Follow the drummer. You will be much happier and out playing in 3 months or less.
This guitarist sounds like a real catch. Since replacing him will be tough, you should make a cathartic CL ad:
"Classic/modern/progressive hard rock band ISO guitarist. Qualifications:
"Classic/modern/progressive hard rock band ISO guitarist. Qualifications:
- No vehicle faster than a bicycle. Safety first! Must be dependent upon band members for rides
- If you reply to this ad within a week of posting, you're too communicative. Aloof personalities only!
- Work ethic: We're not looking for you to go out of your way, so feel free to bring in all the songs from your other band.
- Saboteur: Looking for someone that will set goals lofty enough that they are difficult to achieve. Always a good excuse to get together without any real ramifications.
- Iconoclast: We need unique ideas - if we're playing a song that another band in town that you're not already in is playing it is TOO mainstream. Looking for someone that is interested in playing prog, but not songs from the lamestream media. Focus is on deep cuts from "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp" and similar albums.
- Marketing: We prefer to have the biggest hermit of the group handling public relations. If you choose to stay in your basement most of the time as a middle finger to The Man, then you probably have the right amount of hustle to approach bars with gig offers. When getting gigs it is important to clarify to potential patrons that audience members are asked to stay sober so that they can meditate on the deeper meaning of the unique music they will be hearing.
- Guitar God: As far as musicianship goes, you should expect to play mostly guitar parts that are just a little bit out of your ability level. If you can play the songs and solos competently than you are not progressing, amiright?"
This post is full of win. You have a good drummer, and a good singer, who want to use you to do more marketable music?
DO THIS.
I let the singer in on all the things the drummer and I have been talking over behind the scenes. She is onboard with us if we decide to bail. We should be able to find a guitarist (I have one in mind that is not currently committed to a project) that can handle "mainstream" rock n roll. I am planning on discussing my disatisfaction with the guitarist over his recent lack of communication and the fact he gave 12 of our songs to his other band to learn so he didn't have to learn new music (he's a full time musician, no JOB) for his other band. I'm not sure whether or not his other players in his second band even realize we are also doing the same tunes. If I don't get a satisfactory committment from the guitarist to have our band do the songs exclusively I am prepared to bail (whether or not the drummer or singer come along with me) and find someone I can atleast trust as I no longer feel as comfortable around our current guitarist. The fact that our music is also not mainstream is also a concern when it comes to wondering who in our area will hire us if we play this genre of progressive rock. I love to play it. It's very very challenging. But I also realize it's not every bar patrons cup of tea as compared to what they're used to hearing. I am hoping the other two bail with me so we can continue to play music together as we work well with each other without all the drama. I will know shortly as I will be approaching the guitarist on this shortly as my schedule is kind of busy right now. I did mention it to him in a group email today, but once again he isn't responding to my questions on whether he is going to stop doing our songs with his second band. Thanks for listening and all the suggestions everyone. ROCK ON!!!
Hammer01, you don't have to quit that guitarist's band to form a new one with the other 3 members. In fact, it would be better if you didn't.
As far as overlapping on 10 or 12 songs, whatever, man! Don't sweat that at all, it doesn't make a bit of difference.
If you really want the prog band to take off and mean something to the guitarist, start booking it yourself. When you call him on the phone with a gig, he will accept, right?
Then start the more mainstream band and book those gigs too.
As far as overlapping on 10 or 12 songs, whatever, man! Don't sweat that at all, it doesn't make a bit of difference.
If you really want the prog band to take off and mean something to the guitarist, start booking it yourself. When you call him on the phone with a gig, he will accept, right?
Then start the more mainstream band and book those gigs too.
Unfortunately, singer and drummer only have time for one group due to family commitments. Usually I wouldn't care much if I was in a band doing the same song or two (not twelve) as another band. However, the guitarist has always said (back when he communicated well) that we were going to be the ONLY band in our area doing these progressive rock songs. We have learned them to a "T" thru many many many hours of practice and rehearsing just so he could give them (12 songs) to his other band to do also. Supposedly they are farther along than our band is due to us just recently taking in a new singer and having to start somewhat over again. They haven't booked any (second band) gigs either.
So this guitarist has no job and no car, and is spending his time playing in two non-gigging bands? And, two non-gigging bands which, even if they did try to gig, would be competing for the same limited market?
I just can't see any way that this situation gets better before it gets way worse. Ditch it.
I just can't see any way that this situation gets better before it gets way worse. Ditch it.
Prog rock is fun to play (if you're into that sort of thing) but not an audience favorite, unless maybe you're playing to an audience of musicians. It's hard to win over a crowd with odd time signatures and lots of dynamics. They generally want to hear songs they know from the radio. Clearly you guys understood this going into it, and are counting on getting respect by "being the only ones around who do it, and also turning heads by being great at it".
It seems clear to me that the guitarist is hedging his bets by running the songs through 2 different lineups, and seeing which one ends up sounding better. Even if this is not his underhanded way of deciding which one to back in the long run....it "theoretically" devalues your group in the market (if it matters that multiple bands are playing the same songs) but ABSOLUTELY devalues the personal relationships of your group, since it was agreed that the whole point of doing these songs was to be the only ones doing them and then he turned around and started another group on doing those same songs. He sank your battleship.
Ditch the guitarist. Without question. If not because you probably have a better product without this prog concept...then because he probably would/will do it to you at first chance.
It seems clear to me that the guitarist is hedging his bets by running the songs through 2 different lineups, and seeing which one ends up sounding better. Even if this is not his underhanded way of deciding which one to back in the long run....it "theoretically" devalues your group in the market (if it matters that multiple bands are playing the same songs) but ABSOLUTELY devalues the personal relationships of your group, since it was agreed that the whole point of doing these songs was to be the only ones doing them and then he turned around and started another group on doing those same songs. He sank your battleship.
Ditch the guitarist. Without question. If not because you probably have a better product without this prog concept...then because he probably would/will do it to you at first chance.
Thanks. Really never been a progressive rock listener before starting this project. The music is great and challenging to play. Lots of key changes which is new to me. Sometimes several key changes all in the same tune. I've told the BL guitarist several times that I didn't think this genre of music will go over well in our "small" area. But, he's a "professional (his words)" musician and knows it will work. We were hoping to be unique and are a tight group musically. I am ready to bail. I am going to do it face to face so need to find time as this weekend is booked solid so early next week most likely as I can't see going thru another rehearsal. Will be seeking another group (more mainstream) immediately as my goal is to play music out somewhere. I appreciate everyone's input on this. I'm surprised there haven't been more posts on this one sharing similar experiences. There's got to be more than just me!!! LOL ROCK ON!!!
You're over reacting. You are not gigging so there is no competition
or monetary gain/loss due to this minor issue.
or monetary gain/loss due to this minor issue.
We are rehearsing with the intent of gigging, as well as the second band doing the same. How does your statement make any sense??? You're saying perhaps I should continue to rehearse knowing what I know of the second band's set list and if and when we and they gig, I should quit then when we are now in "competition" for the same dollar using the same songs??? I disagree that I am over reacting.
