Very cool. My grandparents had stands like that. They used them as plant stands. They were well made with thick marble tops. Nicer than much of the furniture made today.
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Very cool. My grandparents had stands like that. They used them as plant stands. They were well made with thick marble tops. Nicer than much of the furniture made today.
It depends on the design of the compressor. Some have buffers built into them that can help with issues. I would try it and see how it works.
Even with what is called true bypass switch designs, there is a capacitance associated with the switch that can affect the sound. The problem with pedals is that everything in the signal path affects the quality of the sound. So you want to minimize what is in the chain. Some switching systems use relays to chain just the pedals needed in the desired order into the loop. This optimizes what is in the signal path for each patch.
The important point is, it's best not to put anything in there that doesn't have to be. So I would try it before buying a buffer. But if it sounds good however you want to use it, don't worry about what you should or shouldn't be doing.
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There is an internal pot inside my compressor described as a color control and I opened it up and it was rolled back from what the manual described as the factory setting. I didn't have time to try it out before work but I will tonight. I think I'm going to use the compressor as a low-level clean boost anyway .
Edit 2 : now I am told that no splitter cables are needed.
Here is the text of the Ernie Ball description that was confusing
"...Utilizing TRS stereo cables, use the B input and B output. For use as a typical pan pedal, switch the toe tap switch to the pan position and use only the A input. The pedal will pan the signal between the A and B outputs."
Volume Pedals | Ernie Ball
Edit : I got it.
Mono male to TRS male splitter cable into input B of the Ernie Ball Volume Pan pedal
TRS male to female mono splitter cable of output B of the Ernie Ball
That will give me what I'm after. Everything except the compressor after the ABY box. I can set the ABY box to both outputs active and forget it. I won't even have to power the LEDs on the ABY box
/Edit
Most of the op text below v (before I figured it out )
Ernie Ball Stereo/Pan pedal
Talking about Model 6165
What I am wanting to do is run an instrument into a compressor and then the compressor into an ABY box.
The description on the Ernie Ball site says that input B on the Ernie Ball pedal is a stereo input. And it states that output B is a stereo out.
So does that mean that in order for me to utilize both the pan and volume functions of the pedal would require me to run the cables out of the A&B outputs of the ABY box into a Y splitter cable with two mono female inputs and one male TRS jack plugged into the B input of the Ernie Ball ? Then run the same type of splitter out of output B on the Ernie Ball ?
Here is the text of the Ernie Ball description that was confusing
"...Utilizing TRS stereo cables, use the B input and B output. For use as a typical pan pedal, switch the toe tap switch to the pan position and use only the A input. The pedal will pan the signal between the A and B outputs."
Volume Pedals | Ernie Ball
Edit : I got it.
Mono male to TRS male splitter cable into input B of the Ernie Ball Volume Pan pedal
TRS male to female mono splitter cable of output B of the Ernie Ball
That will give me what I'm after. Everything except the compressor after the ABY box. I can set the ABY box to both outputs active and forget it. I won't even have to power the LEDs on the ABY box
/Edit
Most of the op text below v (before I figured it out )
Ernie Ball Stereo/Pan pedal
Talking about Model 6165
What I am wanting to do is run an instrument into a compressor and then the compressor into an ABY box.
The description on the Ernie Ball site says that input B on the Ernie Ball pedal is a stereo input. And it states that output B is a stereo out.
So does that mean that in order for me to utilize both the pan and volume functions of the pedal would require me to run the cables out of the A&B outputs of the ABY box into a Y splitter cable with two mono female inputs and one male TRS jack plugged into the B input of the Ernie Ball ? Then run the same type of splitter out of output B on the Ernie Ball ?
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Good that you are working it out. I wouldn't expect that many people have any experience with this product.
I have an Ernie Ball volume pedal. It's a useful, well built product.
I know that the 6165 has channel B stereo in and out, channel A in and out are mono. There is a single stereo volume pot. The pedal can be switched to work in volume or pan mode but not both.
Switch to volume, channel A and B volume out are controlled together. In pan mode, the pedal pans between output A and B. When in pan mode when you sweep from one end to the other, when using only one output you can go from 100% to 0% volume. So in that respect, it can work as a volume pedal in pan mode.
This is my take on how it works. If you plug a mono cable into channel A, it will pan between the A and B outputs as you sweep between full toe and heal. If you have a stereo input, there are two ways to go, use channel B with a TRS plug, or split the stereo into two mono inputs, A and B. With two mono inputs, it pans channel A output to B and channel B output to A. With a TRS stereo input, it pans the same way, tip from output A to B, ring from output B to A. I don't think that you are supposed to use TRS channel B input and channel A input at the same time.
I assume that you are going from the instrument into the compressor then into the ABY box to utilize one input and two buffered output signals? Connect those mono outputs into the EB channel A and B.
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Yes I was going to run into the compressor only and then into the Ernie Ball.
A local shop I've dealt with for years has a used one and I went by there this afternoon to check it out as well as a Catalinbread Valcoder.
I explained how I was going to use the Ernie Ball 6165 to a member of the store staff and he gave me a heads up on the pedal.
When in pan mode, if you stop halfway to send an equal signal to both amps, there will be a volume drop on both amps due to the signal being halved. So that kind of shot a hole in what I had in mind.
Now I'm thinking that I should just get a regular mono volume pedal.
Here is a link to the 6165 schematic
Invalid Link Removed
Anyhow that Valcoder sounded nice. I'm going to let that simmer for a couple of days. I've got to consider how often I would use it.
maybe i should read the thread little more, but doesnt the pf50t have parallel input jacks? splitters built into the head, run bass to one input plug, then another cord from the second input to input of other head. done
stacking would be best of course, but stacked cabs 2 heads kinda sucks no where put other head.
cabs side by side, to eliminate the horrible but not very big of deal horizontal arrangement,
you get perfect dispersion by setting up both cabs 45 degress towards each other.
basically crossfire baffle but using 2 cabs. easy smeasy.
last time i hooked up 2 amps by using parallel input jacks the sustain was beyond incrediable
stacking would be best of course, but stacked cabs 2 heads kinda sucks no where put other head.
cabs side by side, to eliminate the horrible but not very big of deal horizontal arrangement,
you get perfect dispersion by setting up both cabs 45 degress towards each other.
basically crossfire baffle but using 2 cabs. easy smeasy.
last time i hooked up 2 amps by using parallel input jacks the sustain was beyond incrediable
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I would definitely stack the cabs. I would probably EQ the heads slightly differently. I would experiment with the pedals to determine where to put them in the chain. The dry/wet concept doesn't always work as well as you think it will. Sometimes it just dilutes the sound of the pedals and makes them sound lame.
Anything in the signal path affects the tone of the amp.
If the middle position drops the volume, just don't leave it there.
Looked up the Valcoder, it sounds fantastic! They call it a chop tremolo because it turns the sound on and off like a switch. There are different ways to design a tremolo and these types sound really nice.
Some background. The first pedal designed was a DeArmond Tremolo. It was a mechanical chop type tremolo, very different from the electronic ones that you are used to. It has a motor that rotates an offset wheel. Attached to the wheel is a cannister of liquid. As it moves back and forth, the liquid makes and breaks the instrument signal connection giving you a tremolo effect. It works much like a mercury switch in a room heater thermostat. The speed of the motor affects the tremolo rate. The sound of this type of tremolo is what the Valcoder is simulating.
Some details here: Invalid Link Removed.
Here is a clone, they describe how it works:
The tremolo was used by Bo Diddley, see 2 minutes in.
If you are interested in DIY, the attached pdf is an article on how to build an optical tremolo. Looks interesting. It's doing the same thing as the DeArmond, just in a different way.
A better optical tremolo is below:
Invalid Link Removed
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Forgot to mention this, might be helpful in splitting the compressor.
Tonebone Twinline™ - Dual Amp Effects Loop Interface
Tonebone Twinline™ - Dual Amp Effects Loop Interface
The heads have two inputs but one is a -15db for active
basses. Not sure if it would work.
Stacking the cabs won't be an issue really. My two cabs stacked on an Auralex Gramma would be right at 39 inches high.
I have two of these to carry the heads, which actually locked together when stacked.
Two of those sitting on one of these would give me a 40 inch high platform to set the second head on.
I already had two of those work platforms and bought the Rigid boxes specifically to carry the heads in. Just so happens that they are the perfect height when stacked and sat on one of the platforms. I've already tried it and it's very stable. The boxes themselves weigh 10 lbs each. Anyhow by luck of the draw that would put both heads right at the same height if I wanted them to be so.
I'll try the angled cabs idea. It will be hard to tell here in the living room but worth a try.
Yes it's been a couple of weeks now experimenting with different configurations. The wet/dry option excitement is already fading.
I'm slowly reverting back to a simpler configuration. And I think you're right about just adjusting the EQ on each head differently. I found myself doing that when I had the heads stacked.
The compressor has now been booted off of the board. My initial idea was to use it as more of a clean boost between the bass and the ABY box. I had planned to run dirt into 1 amp after the ABY and modulation effects into the other amp.
I've now found everything sounds better with the MXR CAE Boost Overdrive first in the signal chain. The Tone Press sounded fine after I adjusted it to taste. And the MXR's boost side sounds great. But with the Tone Press and the MXR both on, the tone darkened and the presence the MXR's boost gave me diminished.
So, after spending quite a bit of time trying different configurations, the bass > MXR > ABY > each amp sounds great. With the cabs stacked, separated, or side by side.
That said, the Catalinbread Valcoder or Strymon Ola are still a possibility.
Anything in the signal path affects the tone of the amp.
If the middle position drops the volume, just don't leave it there.
Looked up the Valcoder, it sounds fantastic! They call it a chop tremolo because it turns the sound on and off like a switch. There are different ways to design a tremolo and these types sound really nice.
Some background. The first pedal designed was a DeArmond Tremolo. It was a mechanical chop type tremolo, very different from the electronic ones that you are used to. It has a motor that rotates an offset wheel. Attached to the wheel is a cannister of liquid. As it moves back and forth, the liquid makes and breaks the instrument signal connection giving you a tremolo effect. It works much like a mercury switch in a room heater thermostat. The speed of the motor affects the tremolo rate. The sound of this type of tremolo is what the Valcoder is simulating.
Some details here: Invalid Link Removed.
Here is a clone, they describe how it works:
The tremolo was used by Bo Diddley, see 2 minutes in.
If you are interested in DIY, the attached pdf is an article on how to build an optical tremolo. Looks interesting. It's doing the same thing as the DeArmond, just in a different way.
A better optical tremolo is below:
Invalid Link Removed
David that's some interesting stuff about the original tremolo units !
I don't have internet here at the house right now but here in a little while I can ride over to my library branch with my Bluetooth speaker and use their Wi-Fi. They're closed but I can park close enough to get a good signal.
Radial make some good stuff. All kinds of neat products.
I've got to boot the compressor off the board though, it's not playing nice with my MXR's clean boost side.
Regarding the volume pedal I've decided to just get a standard Ernie Ball volume pedal.
The Valcoder is still a possibility but I'm going to go back to the shop tomorrow and check out the Strymon Ola.
Boy, that one sounds good as well!
Optical sensors are known for their rich organic sound. You find them in some of the classic studio outboard gear such as compressors because they offer a soft turn on that sounds so good. Some amps, including Ampeg use them in their tremolo circuits.
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They certainly had some good ideas in the old days. They knew about tone.
Strymon makes some pretty nice effects. Their products are well engineered and sound very good. All digital. I've thought about getting their their tape El Capistan tape echo box. Always a dilemma, is it best to go analog or digital.
Anything in the signal path affects the tone of the amp.
If the middle position drops the volume, just don't leave it there.
Looked up the Valcoder, it sounds fantastic! They call it a chop tremolo because it turns the sound on and off like a switch. There are different ways to design a tremolo and these types sound really nice.
Some background. The first pedal designed was a DeArmond Tremolo. It was a mechanical chop type tremolo, very different from the electronic ones that you are used to. It has a motor that rotates an offset wheel. Attached to the wheel is a cannister of liquid. As it moves back and forth, the liquid makes and breaks the instrument signal connection giving you a tremolo effect. It works much like a mercury switch in a room heater thermostat. The speed of the motor affects the tremolo rate. The sound of this type of tremolo is what the Valcoder is simulating.
Some details here: Invalid Link Removed.
Here is a clone, they describe how it works:
The tremolo was used by Bo Diddley, see 2 minutes in.
If you are interested in DIY, the attached pdf is an article on how to build an optical tremolo. Looks interesting. It's doing the same thing as the DeArmond, just in a different way.
A better optical tremolo is below:
Invalid Link Removed
That DeArmond clone video was a treat ! The builder explained how it works it very well. Cool amp too.
Thanks for sharing the other links as well
Well, after much experimentation and all with effects, speaker placement, etc., I think I know where I'm going to land with this deal.
I'm 90% sure my signal chain will be bass > Radial Dragster > compressor > clean boost > Radial Bigshot ABY > one or both heads (depending on volume/venue needs) I'm still considering a volume pedal but I'll deal with that after the rest is lined out.
I just have to decide between the Keeley Bassist or the MXR M87. My Barber Tone Press is just too noisy and doesn't seem to want to play well with my MXR CAE Boost Overdrive. Once I settle on a compressor I will just get a different boost if there still an issue with the MXR Boost after the compressor.
I've tried a lot of effects including stereo chorus, delays, and the like. And while they sound very cool here at home, for the genres I'll be playing in a band situation I just don't see any need for them.
So instead of forking out the money for effects, I think I'll just add two more 112 cabs. A few days ago I ran one of my heads into my two Rumble 112's stacked and really pushed them hard. I did this outside on the porch and they sounded great. I was very surprised at how loud they would actually get being hit with just the little 50 watt PF-50T.
So now I'm open to suggestions. I'm wondering if I should just get two more of the Rumble V3 112 cabs or grab an Avatar B212 with the Deltalite2 2512's.
I'm wondering if there will be a mismatch there ? Might the two Rumble 112's stacked be louder or not as loud as the Avatar B212 with the Neo speakers ?
Obvious answer is try them and see of course but since I can't try the Avatar out without ordering it, I hate to pay the return shipping on it if it didn't work out.
What would you do ?
I'm 90% sure my signal chain will be bass > Radial Dragster > compressor > clean boost > Radial Bigshot ABY > one or both heads (depending on volume/venue needs) I'm still considering a volume pedal but I'll deal with that after the rest is lined out.
I just have to decide between the Keeley Bassist or the MXR M87. My Barber Tone Press is just too noisy and doesn't seem to want to play well with my MXR CAE Boost Overdrive. Once I settle on a compressor I will just get a different boost if there still an issue with the MXR Boost after the compressor.
I've tried a lot of effects including stereo chorus, delays, and the like. And while they sound very cool here at home, for the genres I'll be playing in a band situation I just don't see any need for them.
So instead of forking out the money for effects, I think I'll just add two more 112 cabs. A few days ago I ran one of my heads into my two Rumble 112's stacked and really pushed them hard. I did this outside on the porch and they sounded great. I was very surprised at how loud they would actually get being hit with just the little 50 watt PF-50T.
So now I'm open to suggestions. I'm wondering if I should just get two more of the Rumble V3 112 cabs or grab an Avatar B212 with the Deltalite2 2512's.
I'm wondering if there will be a mismatch there ? Might the two Rumble 112's stacked be louder or not as loud as the Avatar B212 with the Neo speakers ?
Obvious answer is try them and see of course but since I can't try the Avatar out without ordering it, I hate to pay the return shipping on it if it didn't work out.
What would you do ?
For speaker cabs, I would stick with multiples of the same type, not mixing them.
Knowing what to do with pedals can drive you nuts. Have you ever checked out what an Eventide H9 max can do? They have a giveaway going on their web site. You never know....
Invalid Link Removed
Knowing what to do with pedals can drive you nuts. Have you ever checked out what an Eventide H9 max can do? They have a giveaway going on their web site. You never know....
Invalid Link Removed
Okay thanks for the cabinet advise and the link as well.
As far as pedals driving me nuts it would be a very short trip in my case
