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Two part polyurethane fretless board

4to5to6

4to5to6

Bassist
Apr 18, 2007
507
48
Canada, Pacific North West USA
#1
This is my first post to the Luthier's Corner.

I am thinking of refinishing the lined fretless board of my 4-string Pedulla Buzz bass.

I've coated many fretboards with mixed results using epoxy and I am now thinking of experimenting with a two part polyurethane finish.

Has anybody used a two part polyurethane to coat their fretless board? Any hints, tricks, problems etc. specific to this material? I am hoping for advice specific to coating materials and not advice on fretless setup, etc.

My local Marine store has recommended INTERLUX PERFECTION. Has anybody used this product?

Are there other products equivalent to the original coating that MV Pedulla uses?
 
#3
Thanks mikeyswood,

I appreciate your direct answer. ;) When you say it never drys do you mean it stays soft, has a sticky surface, etc.? The material I was investigating is used to paint yachts and is a two part with a hardener. I know for sure some manufacturers are using polyurethane for at least their finishes if not their boards.

I see from Pedulla's web site that they actually use polyester (you are right - an ester) to coat their fretless finger boards. And somewhere I read that Pedulla's fingerboards are as 90% hard as glass. So I will check further into polyester coatings.

Jaco used two part epoxy and I have tried many in the past with varying results:

EnviroTex Lite - clear but not very hard

System Three Cold Cure - 95% clear - best overall results

All Wood Glue - 70% clear (brownish) - almost as hard as glass but very thick and doesn't flow out.

Epoxy also seems to really deaden the sound of my bass as well. Jaco's tone was obviously in his hands and I am sure he could make any bass sing.

It appears that two part urethane and polyester are the best ways to go.

Anyone have any experience in working / comparing these two finishes?

Any recommended two part polyesters brands?
 
#4
You can get two-part polyester kits from surfboard builder's supply sources, like here:
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I'm about to do my fingerboard with their epoxy, I'll let eveyone know how it goes.
 
#5
Awesome... Thanks!

I see they have both the sandable and non-sandable (stays tacky) types in small quantities. I'm not totally sure why the two different types though.

One web site says you should thin the first coat with 10% acetone when using over wood so it penetrates the wood better and therefore has better adhesion.

Please let me know how it turns out and any tricks or tips you pickup along the way.
 
#6
I did some custom water bed frames in years past, and the urethanes - the two-part with a kicker - will work OK - but remember that urethane is softer than epoxies and will not resist wear as well.

As far as them never drying - that's not totally true as it's usually the feeling and softness of it can give that impression.

I'd NOT use a single-stage urethane though as it needs to air dry and that can take a while.

A two-part with a kicker is going to chemically harden and dry - but like I said it is a softer finish.

The sandability factor as implied as a waxed and unwaxed in reference to the product as wax keeps the paper sharp and without wax, the paper dies quick - that's about the only difference. However, the waxed product has to be cleaned totally for a second coat if you need to cover it again.

If I was going to coat a board (bass, not surf) I'd NOT use a marine grade product. Just me from my experience here.
 
#7
Thanks SurferJoe46.

That makes perfect sense. So the ultimate would be to use the non-sandable type for the first couple of layers then finish with one layer of sandable.

Here's an interesting short video on casting embedments by Tap Plastics with some insights into the use of polyester:



It's interesting how you can let polyester harden to a gel then immediately apply another layer.

SurferJoe46, What is the difference between marine grade polyesters and the type surfeboarders use?
 
#8
Usually the big difference is that the marine grade won't solar yellow or break down as much. Surfboards are not gonna live as long as most yachts, so the logic and more expensive resins go to the marine stuff.

Not that marine won't work on sufboards, it's just more expensive.

Yeah about the recoat - since outgassing isn't really a problem with a catalyzed product, hardening takes place without oxygen or gas exchange.

There is a lot of thermal production though and I've mixed batches that were so hot they smoked.
 
#9
Sorry to hijack the thread, but bear with me here. First time defret project.

Plan: Defret the fret board, fill fret grooves with epoxy, sand the board after the epoxy dries, proceed with first coat of lacquer, sand and add more layers of lacquer as necessary.

Thoughts?
 
#15
I've experimented with crazy glue with mixed results. I would never use nitro as it is too fragile.

The Pedulla Buzz bass is one of best fretless basses made in my opinion and many others. I consider Michael Pedulla a genius when it comes to building basses. I was completely blown away the first time I picked up a Buzz.

My first choice would be simply to send my bass home to Michael and get him to do it but being on the west coast of Canada it will cost me $300 in shipping alone.

I don't expect my Buzz to turn out as good as if Michael did it as he has been dong this 35 years and I imagine has experimented with every type of fingerboard coating possible and his skill level is in a whole different category than mine. He has perfected his proceedure many years ago.

Let's concentrate on different brands of polyester please and different techniques, tips, tricks, etc. to apply polyester.

If you can make a case for urethane I'm open to that still as well but more out of curiosity than anything.
 
#17
Since you're going to be doing the work yourself, I think you are realistically limited to epoxy or cyanoacrylate glue. Polyester does not lend itself to a regular home shop and is explosive and quite dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. It requires specialized equipment and training to apply.

I recommend you just take two-part polyurethane off the table. Its a durable finish yes, but IMHO, it's not hard enough to provide a professional, long-lasting finish, and we're talking about a Pedulla here.

YMMV...
 
#18
SurferJoe46 said:
Usually the big difference is that the marine grade won't solar yellow or break down as much. Surfboards are not gonna live as long as most yachts, so the logic and more expensive resins go to the marine stuff.

Not that marine won't work on sufboards, it's just more expensive.

Yeah about the recoat - since outgassing isn't really a problem with a catalyzed product, hardening takes place without oxygen or gas exchange.

There is a lot of thermal production though and I've mixed batches that were so hot they smoked.
Click to expand...

This Resin Research stuff is allegedly made of a lot higher quality raw materials than other marine grade epoxies (read, West System.) My dad builds boats, and I have spent many many years on and around boats for fun and professionally, and 'marine' epoxy turns yellow and nasty after a few years. Those pretty yachts with all the brightwork have UV resistant varnish over the epoxy, and you have to redo that finish every other year, or every year in the tropics. All epoxies yellow in intense UV exposure. I've only used this Resin Research epoxy on one other project (the finish on my first bass build), but it is as clear as when I put it on and that was march 2008. It is also very hard, and the surface agent that comes with the kit makes it flow out very well. I'd use this stuff on a fingerboard OR a boat before I used a 'marine grade' epoxy.

EDIT- I have no ties to Resin Research, I am just a fan of their product.
 
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#19
There must be some recompounding then of the marine grade stuff. All I ever used in years never sun-burned or yellowed, but that was then and this is now, cheap-ville and LOW VOC stuff.

I'd still not use a laminating poly for a fretboard - just not hard surfaced enough I feel.

Epoxies can give off some nasty fumes - and they generate a lot of heat if they are mixed wrong too. Still - if I had to, epoxy is where I'd go but I do NOT want any lawyers calling me so I'd say stay away from it if you aren't proficient with it and know about all the MSDs on the stuff.

"Varnish" has never been a choice in my world and I'd paint wood that needed varnish a hot sky blue-pink before I'd put varnish on it.
 
#20
Although primarily a starving bassist now, in a past life I designed power systems for all the big yacht builders in Western Canada and many in the Pacific North West. I observed keenly the fiberglassers and fairers when ever I could along with exotic wood being used. Before going to school for many years in electronics and electrical and worked as a mechanic and autobody technician eventually owning my own body shop for a year but went broke restoring all my friend's vintage cars. I've always loved working with wood as well but have never had the opportunity to get into it like I wished.

I don't have a shop to work in right now so this will be a back yard project I agree. Sourcing the right product, coming up with the right proceedures, then following the procedures for mixing and applying polyester will not be that difficult for me. I promise to ventilate well even though I will be mixing very small quantities at a time. The difficult part will be prep sanding the board perfectly true and then finish sanding the polyester perfectly true so there is an even thin layer. As I said, I have successfully coated my 5-string many times with epoxy with great sounding results but now want to take it up a notch. I have a 12" radius, 18" long sanding beam to match the Pedulla board which will make the job much easier with even better results.

We could get into wether or not I should use a neck jig but I am not in a rush so I will adjust the neck perfectly flat with no strings, leave it a couple of days and flatten it again. The setup right now is perfect so keeping everything flat should theoretically work even with the extra stiffeners in side the neck.

Although this thread started out with polyurethane it quickly became apparent that polyester is superior and really my main object is to keep my Pedulla Buzz a Pedulla Buzz as it is known as one of the best fretless basses in the World so polyester it is.

Hopefully Michael Pedulla would be proud of my work since his name is on the front of this bass.
 

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