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Tyrant Music leader?

#24
jive1 said:
Second, the person you should be talking to about all this is the WL. When he said that there wouldn't be much need for fretless, you should have continued the discussion there, not on this board. Third, you're there to serve. Leave the ego at home. If you're in a huff and finding the need to vent because someone won't let you use one of your toys, you should rethink why you're doing this. The WL at my church doesn't like me to play busy bass-lines or groove too much because it may distract from the message or the spirit of the song, meditation, etc. Having played urban Gospel at a previous church, it was a change for me, but I could understand where he's coming from. It's not about me, or my expression, it's about service.
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I thought this was the place where you could safely get second opinions from other bass players while continuing to be basicly annonnymous. Nobody on this board is passing judgement on this WL because they have no idea who he is, that's the whole point. Please don't get in a "huf" because a bass player seeks the opinions of others who have probably been in the same situation. Yes, as a musician you are there to serve God but I don't believe you just follow along and play whatever your told, you are a musician and a professional, you should be considered the expert on whatever instrument you've been playing for the past 20, 30, 40 years. If you've only had 6 months experience and don't know what the heck your doing you should get off the stage or do exactly as your told because you're not an expert. A few years back I was at a church where they allowed a teen with a guitar to get on stage and make noise, when they figured out he didn't know how to play, they just turned his channel off. They thought they were keeping in church because he felt important, however he often got upset because he could hear my bass but not his guitar, I thought it was plain sad and disrespectful. As a professional you are volunteering a talent and not getting paid for it, it should be seen in that light.
 
#27
tonylevinkix said:
I thought this was the place where you could safely get second opinions from other bass players while continuing to be basicly annonnymous. Nobody on this board is passing judgement on this WL because they have no idea who he is, that's the whole point. Please don't get in a "huf" because a bass player seeks the opinions of others who have probably been in the same situation. Yes, as a musician you are there to serve God but I don't believe you just follow along and play whatever your told, you are a musician and a professional, you should be considered the expert on whatever instrument you've been playing for the past 20, 30, 40 years. If you've only had 6 months experience and don't know what the heck your doing you should get off the stage or do exactly as your told because you're not an expert. A few years back I was at a church where they allowed a teen with a guitar to get on stage and make noise, when they figured out he didn't know how to play, they just turned his channel off. They thought they were keeping in church because he felt important, however he often got upset because he could hear my bass but not his guitar, I thought it was plain sad and disrespectful. As a professional you are volunteering a talent and not getting paid for it, it should be seen in that light.
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I thought that this was a place where you can express your opinions even if it's not something that everyone may agree with. :hmm: I just don't agree it's fair to call someone a tyrant because their opinion differs from yours about fretless.

Like I said, you can talk to your WL about it. If the explanation doesn't jive with you, you don't have to do it. But, I think it would be more constructive for you to talk to the WL about it than here. Sure we can be your 'amen corner', but it doesn't mean that it will solve the issue or help you grow. Whether it's a WL, team member, whatever, humility goes a long way. I've been playing for over 20 years, and I've taken direction from people with less experience. I'm more than happy to talk it over, but in the end, it's not about me. I have plenty of opportunities to be self indulgent, and I usually take them;). But, I also know that I need some instances where I focus on serving, if it's just for my own spiritual growth. I'm naturally hard headed, but I've learned that taking direction from others or catering to their preferences doesn't diminish my abilities or confidence. Because in the end, the ego is the worst master to serve because it is never satiated.

But from a practical, non-religious perspective, you can't expect someone to treat you like an expert if you've never played a lick with them.
 
#29
My rule (worship or not) is if your open-minded and willing to work with me, I'm in and I'll be very accommodating to your requests. If you aren't willing to do that, then I won't simply work (play exactly, note for note, what you want) for you.

I'm a regular bassist at my church and we play a lot of the modern rock worship stuff (Tomlin, Hillsong, Jesus Culture etc). Everyone has the leash to improvise and personalize, but if what your doing doesn't work it'll be addressed like adults, and we move on.

You are there to worship and to lead others in worship. both. If anything or anyone is getting in the way of you feeling capable of worshiping and leading, get out and fast.

That's my opinion.

That said, an audition doens't hurt. It's the only way you'll know one way or another
 
#30
tonylevinkix said:
About a year ago we moved closer to my wife's work and most the churches in town don't believe in what you would call modern music. We found a church that does play Christian rock (and we agree with their beliefs) and we've been going there. The music leader/ singer/ keyboardist/ guitar player (get the picture) is rumored to be very controlling about who plays what, exactly what. There are 3 services and the Saturday night service is rumored to need a new bass player. When I spoke to the leader about an audition he asked about my qualifications. I've been playing bass for 30 years, I've played in two other churches before this and before that I played bars. When I told him I played both fretted and fretless he got a kinda funny look on his face and said "I realize there's a place for fretless but I don't think we'll ever do anything where we need fretless". That hurt because I love playing fretless especially on some of the slower songs. The bass player on Sunday mornings, wears the bass like a guitar (slung low) and plays with a pick and plays a very basic bass part, in short I think he's just a guitar player who couldn't quite make the cut so he settled for bass. I was really pumped about possibly playing with this band (I've got another little 4 piece I'm playing with on Tuesday's) but now I'm not so sure. I was thinking of taking both the fretted and the fretless to the audition and if he told me to just use the fretted, I'd just tell him to forget it. I absolutely love playing live on Sunday morning but I'm not sure it's worth it.
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I wouldn't bring the fretless, there is really no place for a fretless bass in rock.

By the way I wear my bass slung low ( looks cooler) I use a pick and have been playing bass guitar for over 45 years and have never played guitar or had any interest in it.







Blue
 
#34
bluewine said:
I wouldn't bring the fretless, there is really no place for a fretless bass in rock.







Blue
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Boz Burrell in Bad Company
Rick Danko in The Band
Tony Franklin in The Firm
Bill Wyman in the Rolling Stones (all of his early lines were recorded on an old bass that had such a bad neck he pulled the frets)
Roger Waters in Pink Floyd (he plays some on "The Wall" album)
Tony Levin in King Krimson/Peter Gabriel
Sting with The Police :bassist:
When I was with Jerry Reed I brought a fretless out on the gig. He said "No one is going to play fretless on my show." Fortunately it was lined and I just didn't Jaco it up and played in tune with both pickups up full. He never knew. ;)
I'd just keep an open mind and go to the audition. He may not have had the opportunity to work with anyone who can bring what you have to the gig. +1 on seeing Worship Music as a servant's gig and checking the ego at the door. It's important to remember Who you're playing for anyway.....
 
#35
tonylevinkix said:
Yeah, my fretless is lined, but you'd have to be deaf not to hear it's a fretless.
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I used to bring my lined fretless to rehearsal and since it was the most well lit place, you really could tell by looking at it. One night the guitarist said to me "you know sometimes I could swear that's a fretless bass". I just responded that it was all in the technique. :)

I finally fessed up and told him it was a fretless.
 
#36
tonylevinkix said:
Yeah, my fretless is lined, but you'd have to be deaf not to hear it's a fretless.
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What the eye "thinks" it sees gets priority over what the ear is actually hearing. I don't think I would pick a fretless from 20ft if the player mainly played clean notes either.

I would do the audition any way they want it. The appropriateness or otherwise of fretless can be worked on inside the band.
 
#37
jive1 said:
Something will have to give, otherwise you'd have a worship team full of so-and-so's kid who started taking lessons last month, the guy who feels 'called' to be a musician even though they never played an instrument before, satan worshippers who are looking to make a quick buck to buy animal sacrifices, a choir full of out of tune singers, etc. You'll be doing old hymns, CCM, gospel, secular songs, Christian metal fused with Gospel Hip Hop, hootenany campfire retreat songs and gregorian chants, with solos for flute, bass, clarinet, tuba, guitar, keyboard, all taken at random places within a song depending on how the musicians feel at the moment.
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Leave my church band out of this! :hiding:

Seriously though, I'm of the opinion that the OP should at least play with this guy.

Our church has 10 worship teams. The one I play for has a music professor as the band leader, and his wife (also a music teacher) as keyboards. Before I started playing, I got some tips - 'He's hard to work with', 'too many rules', 'his way or the highway'. I met him, and there's an argument that those tips are true. But it's also true that we're the tightest and best worship team in the church, and it's rare that we even need subs, never mind replacements on instruments (last personnel change was over a year ago). As far as I'm concerned, our BL doesn't have rules - he has standards. Maybe the OP will fnid the same thing, and a well-played fretless will be welcome at worship?
 
#40
NWB said:
I believe it was Gilmour playing the fretless parts on that album. Or so I've heard.
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You are correct! Same story on Animals. Thanks guys for your insight. If he invites me for an audition I'll go and (try to)keep an open mind but also keep in mind that I have the freedom to step down if things get too wierd or restrictive. Thanx again
 

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