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Tyrant Music leader?

#61
throughthefire said:
Our church has 10 worship teams. The one I play for has a music professor as the band leader, and his wife (also a music teacher) as keyboards. Before I started playing, I got some tips - 'He's hard to work with', 'too many rules', 'his way or the highway'. I met him, and there's an argument that those tips are true. But it's also true that we're the tightest and best worship team in the church, and it's rare that we even need subs, never mind replacements on instruments (last personnel change was over a year ago). As far as I'm concerned, our BL doesn't have rules - he has standards. Maybe the OP will fnid the same thing, and a well-played fretless will be welcome at worship?
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This is actually a great point. A couple years ago, I served as choir president (administrative leader) for my church choir, along with a well-experienced, highly-skilled choir director (musical leader) who had developed an undeserved reputation as an unreasonable person and a hard taskmaster.

In fact, it was I who pushed him to implement some guidelines & standards; to implement some well-needed discipline, so the choir could reach its considerable potential. As a result, some - though not all - of the congregation's members, including some choir members themselves - turned against him, complaining bitterly about the new guidelines, until the whole program ultimately fell apart, and had to be rebuilt - without the director - or me. I still bristle at the unfair politics of it all... :mad:

It's perfectly possible that this worship leader is similarly misunderstood - and similarly maligned. People can be cruel. People can be childish. :rollno:

MM
 
#63
As a conundrum it's not really that difficult to solve is it?

Take your fretted bass to the audition. If you pass the audition, play the fretted and bet on your own ability as a musician to earn the respect of the leader. When you've done that, take the fretless - it surely shouldn't take much of a premise to take it along as a spare and start to use it in a "whoops the jack is crackling/machine head is slipping/fret is buzzing/string is dead or broken". If you are confident that fretless (and your playing) will add to the music it shouldn't be hard to open his ears to the possibilities.
 
#64
topo morto said:
The thing is, how would they know? A prayer of petition to ask which He likes best? What if you get a day when Allah is on duty, and he's all "I don't care about the frets, but would you take the strings off, please"...
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I love a bit of humour in the management section, blasphemy and all.

Hey, have fun, if it's not fun go back to the pews.

All this talk of drawing attention off the purpose of worship is a bunch of doublespeak hooey if you ask me. They should be chanting in caves if they truly believe in lack of distraction.
 
#65
While the world is filled with two faced people iregaurdless of their color creed pollitics religious affiliation sexuality or anything eles you want to throw in the mix. when you know or understand people and personalities the decision will be clear. Either you can hang or it all becomes too much work. I find in my old age (60) I like folks that are "real". My BS tolerance is growing smaller.

Short answer is if you are comfortable do it, if not...NOT. Some of the above was very cogent.
 
#66
Jools4001 said:
As a conundrum it's not really that difficult to solve is it?

Take your fretted bass to the audition. If you pass the audition, play the fretted and bet on your own ability as a musician to earn the respect of the leader. When you've done that, take the fretless - it surely shouldn't take much of a premise to take it along as a spare and start to use it in a "whoops the jack is crackling/machine head is slipping/fret is buzzing/string is dead or broken". If you are confident that fretless (and your playing) will add to the music it shouldn't be hard to open his ears to the possibilities.
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+1. Or when you’ve got his respect, without tricks, just use the fretless and see what happens.

In the meantime, don’t say a word about the fretless so it’s not an issue of being defiant since it wasn’t discussed.
 
#67
JimmyM said:
Sheesh! What's the big deal? So he doesn't like fretless...either take the gig or don't. Don't try to prove a point because you will never win. Roy was able to win vs Jerry Reed because he played his lined fretless like a fretted bass pretty much, and he's a great enough player to where subterfuge would work. Not all of us are that fortunate.
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That's exactly the point, Jimmy. A lot of the fretless players I listed were probably surprises (listen to Rick Danko on Dylan/The Band's Before the Flood live album or any Bad Company recording) because they don't play the stereotypical "Jaco" fretless style. You still have to play the gig. If I really want to play exactly what I want I book a gig, call my players and play a Roy Vogt's Urban Legends Band gig. Otherwise, you play the gig.
I really didn't see it as a win/lose. I thought Jerry had never heard someone playing fretless well or anyway other than the stereotypical fretless ( I call it "Producers fretless") with the mwah, slides, harmonics, etc. A lot of Music gets made on fretless that doesn't have any of that.
 
#71
bluewine said:
Neither, just opinionated.
" you wanna play fretless, join a jazz band"
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Dude, that's not opinionated. An opinion would be "I personally dislike the sound of a fretless in rock music, but love how it sits in a jazz mix."

You would have successfully delivered your point and no one would be butthurt. What you're doing is stating your opinion in a matter that makes it seem as though it should be the standard. An opinion is personal, not universal. Just remember that.

To the OP, my advice is to just audition with a fretted. Show him you know what you're doing and how to be a good supporting bassist in a worship band. After a few months, say 8 to 10 services that you've played with him and established yourself as one who knows what he's doing and is competent in his field, take him aside and just politely bring up that you'd love to be able to break out the fretless on a few of the slower, more mellow songs. And I entirely agree with you that nothing beats a fretless on those songs.
 
#72
bluewine said:
Neither, just opinionated.

I'll repeat;

" you wanna play fretless, join a jazz band"

Blue
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Do you ever wonder how many ignore lists you're on?

220px-Swingline-stapler.jpg
 
#73
Roy Vogt said:
That's exactly the point, Jimmy. A lot of the fretless players I listed were probably surprises (listen to Rick Danko on Dylan/The Band's Before the Flood live album or any Bad Company recording) because they don't play the stereotypical "Jaco" fretless style. You still have to play the gig. If I really want to play exactly what I want I book a gig, call my players and play a Roy Vogt's Urban Legends Band gig. Otherwise, you play the gig.
I really didn't see it as a win/lose. I thought Jerry had never heard someone playing fretless well or anyway other than the stereotypical fretless ( I call it "Producers fretless") with the mwah, slides, harmonics, etc. A lot of Music gets made on fretless that doesn't have any of that.
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Yeah, that's true. And as you said, most people hear "fretless" and think they're going to Jaco up their music, as Jerry probably did. Well if the OP can work it out with the bandleader, then I support him using fretless, but I guess as a fretted player, it doesn't mean as much to me as it does him so I wouldn't sweat it or call the bandleader a tyrant over it ;)
 
#75
Audition with the fretted bass but show up with an 810 and a big tube head and run a lot of distortion. Then ask, "Is this what you had in mind?"

I kid, I kid! I think it comes down to whether you want to play the gig or not, according to his rules. A church that is actually holding auditions seems pretty serious about their sound (we have some churches around here that practically beg for musicians). I see your feeling that since its a volunteer position you should get to play what you want, and I agree with you. But he's ultimately running the show so it may come down to either playing by their rules, skipping the gig, or looking for a new church.

Good luck, whatever happens.
 
#78
JamesGoodall said:
Dude, that's not opinionated. An opinion would be "I personally dislike the sound of a fretless in rock music, but love how it sits in a jazz mix."

Dude? You mean like someone who works on a "Dude Ranch" ?

Yeah, I guess I could have phrased it a little better. I just don't dig fretless. I'm a rock guy.

You would have successfully delivered your point and no one would be butthurt. What you're doing is stating your opinion in a matter that makes it seem as though it should be the standard. An opinion is personal, not universal. Just remember that.

Universal standard, I wish I had that mush power.:)

To the OP, my advice is to just audition with a fretted. Show him you know what you're doing and how to be a good supporting bassist in a worship band.


Well, we are on the same page here. I agree.
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#79
OK, I try to stay on topic whenever I'm on these threads but here I can't resist. You guys remember The Firm with Jimmy Page and Paul Rogers? The bass player was Chris Slade in all the videos I saw him in and on all the songs on both albums, he never plays a fretted bass. When I looked him up on Wiki, I found out he's done a lot more than just 2 albums with The Firm "David Gilmour, Kate Bush, Whitesnake, Donna Lewis, Pat Travers and many others. An in-demand session bass ace, he has appeared on more than 150 albums". And when this guy played on these Firm albums there was no "you know I think that might be a fretless", it was more like "wow listen to that guy play fretless". That is my two scents on the subject.
 

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