• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Tyrant Music leader?

#46
1954bassman said:
Okay, I am gonna throw my hat in the ring. You and I share a lot of common ground: I have been playing for about 45 years, I grew up playing in honky-tonks and illegal bars. Through the years I have played in just about every type of band out there. In 1988, my life got turned around, and I have played only Christian music since then.

I started playing fretless about 20 years ago, and I now see fretless as my main enjoyment. I do still play fretted basses also. All 5'ers by the way.

Here is my offering:

Please know, I am just trying too help out, and I certainly am not trying to cast any accusations.

1. The bass chair is any band is a servant / support postion.

2. To a certain degree, all BLs (aka Worship Leaders) are at times hard to work with. Myself, I see this as a two-way street. Make yourself overly accommodating, and both sides win.

3. Start with as simple a set-up as possible

4. A praise band at church is very different from a working, gigging band. If you burn the mid-night oil getting a complex song down, chances are very good no one else will even practice it outside of rehearsal. So be flexible on arrangements and chord changes. Be prepared to play songs "wrong".

5. I would let the whole fretless / fretted thing slide , and later on work your fretless in a low key manner. Another thought concerning fretless is the BL may not even know what you mean by fretless, maybe he pictures an upright, or maybe he has some negative connotation when he thinks "fretless".

6. Probably the last thing I would do is confront him, calling him names, try to "level" the ground with self-edifying commits, or even being pushy and "demanding" an audition.

7. Just be honest and up-front. Tell him your exprience playing praise music. Make him aware you are a serious musician, and would be dependable, and prompt. Inform him of your practice habits outside of rehearsal time.

8. Make yourself available and be as flexiable as you can. Make sure any commitment you are required to make is one that you will have no problem keeping.

9. Again, I personally would avoid confrontation, Commit to being a dedicated band member, offer your talent, and go into all this with a mindset to serve.
Click to expand...


I also have been playing for Forty years this September, with the last 18 years playing in the same Worship band, with multiple WL's and with the first 14 years playing regularly (almost Every Sunday),

What 1954bassman is saying above IS SPOT ON including the part about "at times hard to work with". I've had to bite my tongue on a good number of occasions and am glad I did. In time things smooth over. This is especially true when players get rotated out of the normal lineup, due to folks moving or other circumstances. "My" drummer of the first 14 years moved out of state, for a couple of years, only to return back to our area. The Leader immediately hooked us back up to be on the same team rotation - ( there WERE no rotations before - we were it!

Hope all this helps.
 
#47
Me again.

1. Its the WLs band
2. We are leading Worship
3. Oh, my mistake, its His band

I moved from sound board to bass at my church about two or three years ago. Our Worship leader is the Pastor's wife, and she is pretty-well self taught singer and pianoist. Her chops are okay, and she has a great set of pipes, but her people skills are 'not-so-good'.

It took me a good year to establish myself in her band, even though pretty well all the rest of us are much better musicians than her. At this point, she has moved out front just to sing, leaving the music to us. We have a seven peice band, and I am pretty well the peace-keeper. With a total of 10 people, there is always opportunity for hurt feelings, feeling un-appreciated, etc. I try to be an encourager anytime I see one of my band-mates getting 'down'.

I also make a point of being supportive of our leader, and if an awkward or otherwise bad commit is made, I make an effort to present both sides.

After I finally earned her trust as a solid, dependable player, she could care less if I brought a fretless bass. In fact, for over a year there I was bringing both every time we played, and working the fretless in at least once a set. One Sunday I played a Lakland 55-02 fretless the entire service, and guess what? Nobody, not even some musician friends of mine in the audience, even noticed. A drummer friend insisted I was kidding, as he was always on me about how much better my fretless sounded.
 
#48
rjmsteel said:
I also have been playing for Forty years this September, with the last 18 years playing in the same Worship band, with multiple WL's and with the first 14 years playing regularly (almost Every Sunday),

What 1954bassman is saying above IS SPOT ON including the part about "at times hard to work with". I've had to bite my tongue on a good number of occasions and am glad I did. In time things smooth over. This is especially true when players get rotated out of the normal lineup, due to folks moving or other circumstances. "My" drummer of the first 14 years moved out of state, for a couple of years, only to return back to our area. The Leader immediately hooked us back up to be on the same team rotation - ( there WERE no rotations before - we were it!

Hope all this helps.
Click to expand...

WL's have a tough job. Dealing with the range of talent is huge. From greenhorns to pro's. I played yesterday with someine that was asked to play keys with Foreigner for three months. On the other hand I played with a "guitarist" that told the WL that he knew how to play electric. He showed up with a really cheap Squire strat, and pluged it straight into the snake.No amp,nothin':eek:
 
#51
The MD of the church band I'm subbing in tells me what she wants, and I do everything I can to give it to her (alright you guys, I'm talking about music here). The sound man/stage director is a bit grumpy and seems green, but I just humor him - he does control my fader after all. I'm just there to make them look good.
 
#58
Sheesh! What's the big deal? So he doesn't like fretless...either take the gig or don't. Don't try to prove a point because you will never win. Roy was able to win vs Jerry Reed because he played his lined fretless like a fretted bass pretty much, and he's a great enough player to where subterfuge would work. Not all of us are that fortunate.
 
#59
Atheist here. However, isn't the point for worship? To praise glory to the heavens or something? Sounds like the music shouldn't be about you or him. If you care, go for the audition. If you make it, use whatever suits the song and the worship. The worship leader, in my opinion, can pound sand if he still doesn't let you use it after it's contributed to the best worship scenario.

That said, don't make it about playing the fretless if it doesn't contrivute to the above
 
#60
1954bassman said:
Okay, I am gonna throw my hat in the ring. You and I share a lot of common ground: I have been playing for about 45 years, I grew up playing in honky-tonks and illegal bars. Through the years I have played in just about every type of band out there. In 1988, my life got turned around, and I have played only Christian music since then.

I started playing fretless about 20 years ago, and I now see fretless as my main enjoyment. I do still play fretted basses also. All 5'ers by the way.

Here is my offering:

Please know, I am just trying too help out, and I certainly am not trying to cast any accusations.

1. The bass chair is any band is a servant / support postion.

2. To a certain degree, all BLs (aka Worship Leaders) are at times hard to work with. Myself, I see this as a two-way street. Make yourself overly accommodating, and both sides win.

3. Start with as simple a set-up as possible

4. A praise band at church is very different from a working, gigging band. If you burn the mid-night oil getting a complex song down, chances are very good no one else will even practice it outside of rehearsal. So be flexible on arrangements and chord changes. Be prepared to play songs "wrong".

5. I would let the whole fretless / fretted thing slide , and later on work your fretless in a low key manner. Another thought concerning fretless is the BL may not even know what you mean by fretless, maybe he pictures an upright, or maybe he has some negative connotation when he thinks "fretless".

6. Probably the last thing I would do is confront him, calling him names, try to "level" the ground with self-edifying commits, or even being pushy and "demanding" an audition.

7. Just be honest and up-front. Tell him your exprience playing praise music. Make him aware you are a serious musician, and would be dependable, and prompt. Inform him of your practice habits outside of rehearsal time.

8. Make yourself available and be as flexiable as you can. Make sure any commitment you are required to make is one that you will have no problem keeping.

9. Again, I personally would avoid confrontation, Commit to being a dedicated band member, offer your talent, and go into all this with a mindset to serve.
Click to expand...

jive1 said:
I play fretless at church, and haven't seen a reason yet why it won't fit. But there's some points I'd like to make.

First off, you guys are passing alot of judgement and making negative assumptions about a guy that you don't know or haven't met yet. Too often what someone says about someone prior to meeting them will taint the way you see them and interact with them once you finally meet or work with them. My policy, I'll give you the opportunity to prove that you are a jerk, tyrant, etc. before I think you are one. I think the guy's reputation may have tainted your experience with him, and had you loaded for bear when you didn't need to.

Second, the person you should be talking to about all this is the WL. When he said that there wouldn't be much need for fretless, you should have continued the discussion there, not on this board. If you're going to work with the guy, you will need to communicate with him/her sooner or later. Maybe the guy had bad experiences with a fretless or doesn't know much, and may be open to it. Maybe the guy has a clear vision that he doesn't want to deviate from.

Third, you're there to serve. Leave the ego at home. If you're in a huff and finding the need to vent because someone won't let you use one of your toys, you should rethink why you're doing this. The WL at my church doesn't like me to play busy bass-lines or groove too much because it may distract from the message or the spirit of the song, meditation, etc. Having played urban Gospel at a previous church, it was a change for me, but I could understand where he's coming from. It's not about me, or my expression, it's about service.

Before you make any decisions, talk to the WL some more before taking the jump-to-conclusions, mob approach of an online forum. Being a WL involves taking input from many different people from musicians, pastor, congregants, commitees, etc. and trying to piece them together into something workable. Something will have to give, otherwise you'd have a worship team full of so-and-so's kid who started taking lessons last month, the guy who feels 'called' to be a musician even though they never played an instrument before, satan worshippers who are looking to make a quick buck to buy animal sacrifices, a choir full of out of tune singers, etc. You'll be doing old hymns, CCM, gospel, secular songs, Christian metal fused with Gospel Hip Hop, hootenany campfire retreat songs and gregorian chants, with solos for flute, bass, clarinet, tuba, guitar, keyboard, all taken at random places within a song depending on how the musicians feel at the moment.
Click to expand...

Two most excellent posts on the topic.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back