Uber 410 = Uber Bad *ss

[hasbeen]

That's actually very heavy for a neo 410. For example, the ceramic Bergantino HS410 is only about 15 pounds more, and the new AE410 is right at 60 pounds, with a 16" depth (wonderful). The classic Epifani410UL is at 57 pounds, although it is full size (18" depth). There are quite a few neo 410's that are in the 55-60 pound range that are also awesome. Make sure you do your homework before you take the plunge... lot's of great stuff out there.

please keep in mind we're not trying to build the lightest, we're trying to build to what our ears, sounds the best.

 

[Fretlessboy]

and you did it. Drive that puppy with the 1200 and kiddy'up

 

[KJung]

please keep in mind we're not trying to build the lightest, we're trying to build to what our ears, sounds the best.

Um... I assume that would be true for any manufacturer... some just also achieve a great weight spec also. I have a pretty strict 60 pound limit on any single piece of gear (any heavier than that feels 'heavy' to me when trying to lift the cab on a tall stage or up stairs by myself), but I look forward to trying one of these out sometime.

 

[Eublet]

I haven't heard the Uber 410, but from the looks of it, it appears to be more in the traditional cabinet size, with the big ports on the bottom and such. If it really sounds more like a traditional 410, it probably has better bracing inside as well to reduce vibration and energy loss, which also adds to the weight.

The Epi 410 is a GREAT cabinet, but it doens't quite pull off the tone of the more traditional 410's IMO. I'd really like to A/B all these cabs together, but if the Uber 410 is as "heavy and ceramic sounding" as I have heard, then it is the perfect solution for those guys who don't care for the Epi. In that case, a 30-40 pound weight savings would be incredible. Fortunately for me, I'm not into 410's at all, so I don't have to worry about GAS here!

 

[KJung]

I haven't heard the Uber 410, but from the looks of it, it appears to be more in the traditional cabinet size, with the big ports on the bottom and such. If it really sounds more like a traditional 410, it probably has better bracing inside as well to reduce vibration and energy loss, which also adds to the weight.

The Epi 410 is a GREAT cabinet, but it doens't quite pull off the tone of the more traditional 410's IMO. I'd really like to A/B all these cabs together, but if the Uber 410 is as "heavy and ceramic sounding" as I have heard, then it is the perfect solution for those guys who don't care for the Epi. In that case, a 30-40 pound weight savings would be incredible. Fortunately for me, I'm not into 410's at all, so I don't have to worry about GAS here!

There are quite a few good options. The newer Epi410UL (the Series II) is just different enough from the Series I (it doesn't have the upper mid presence that some attribute to the 'neo' 410 cab tone), that it would probably surprise you. The new Bergantino AE410 is 60 pounds, 16" deep, and has a very even mid punchy tone and a very tight low end.

Again, I realize this is an Uber410 site, but whenever I see posts like I was responding to ('wow, a 70 pound 410.. that's amazing!), or 'wow, a micro amp that puts out 500 or 600 watts and sounds full and punchy... that's the first time ever', etc.), it is clear to me that these posters have not 'done their homework', and I am just pointing out different options.

 

[hasbeen]

Um... I assume that would be true for any manufacturer... some just also achieve a great weight spec also. I have a pretty strict 60 pound limit on any single piece of gear (any heavier than that feels 'heavy' to me when trying to lift the cab on a tall stage or up stairs by myself), but I look forward to trying one of these out sometime.

I wouldn't assume that at all. Every piece of gear is a balance in compromise and the choice has to be made as to what the design priority is.

We can easily make a cabinet out of North Nepalese Popular ply to save some weight. It will NOT have the umph though as a cabinet with different/more mass. ...bracing aside.

In the end, I have a cabinet collection of most of what the other premium builders have to offer so there was no mystery as to what we were after. My ultimate goal was to have a neo cab that had more balz than anyother on the market. ...oomph, grunt, growl, projection and punch.

Of course the player will have to decide if that's what they want over weight and if we achieved it.

 

[Eublet]

Ken, those are indeed fine cabs, but they don't sound like a traditional 410 to me. They don't have the low end girth, but rather are tight and punchy as you have described them. I would add that they are more open sounding as well.

I looked VERY seriously at EPI cabs before going with my current 212/112 cabs. I wanted very much to like the UL410 and especially the UL310. Neither were bad, but they didn't excite me very much either. I can see why so many love them, and they are definitely lightweight. I also tried to get into Accugroove cabs, and I spent several hours with them in various places. The Whappo was a darn fine cabinet, but too big for my needs, as most 410's are. Most all the AG cabs were nice, but just didn't really call my name.

In the end, no 410 really had much of what I want. If I had the need for a full stack, then a couple of 410's or an 810 would be great, but I'd want them to be of the more traditional voicing. Most of those 410's seem to be in the 90-110 lb range. If the Uber does that at 70 pounds, I can understand it's appeal, but it probably still wouldn't be for me. I'd like to try one just to hear it though. My 212xlt at 75 lbs seemed VERY light and easy to move. I'm guess an Uber 410 would be about the same.

Now, the announcement of an Uber 212 might give me pause!

 

[BigMikeW]

I have a pretty strict 60 pound limit on any single piece of gear (any heavier than that feels 'heavy' to me when trying to lift the cab on a tall stage or up stairs by myself), but I look forward to trying one of these out sometime.

Yeah, but isn't that really because you aren't much bigger than my 10 year old daughter?

My daughter can pick up and move the 212 cab. I think a grown man can handle the 70 lbs. of the UB410.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Just funnin' with yeah. Don't get your pullups in a bunch.

 

[KJung]

Yeah, but isn't that really because you aren't much bigger than my 10 year old daughter?

My daughter can pick up and move the 212 cab. I think a grown man can handle the 70 lbs. of the UB410.

Just funnin' with yeah. Don't get your pullups in a bunch.

I am kind of a wimp! I look forward to trying this cab. I love my 410's and end up trying them all. I'm hoping they get a good dose of this stuff at Low Down Sound now that they are dealers.

I also agree with Hasbeen... lot's of ways to 'skin a cat'... and lot's of things (size, wood density, tuning, driver design) that impact both tone and weight.

It's kind of cool that these different manufacturers are taking different approaches to the 'tone weight thing'... with Epi using full width light poplar and bracing to achieve light weight, Bergantino using thinner pieces of the standard cab wood and bracing to achieve light weight, and Genz basically leaving the cab alone and relying on the neo's to get at least some weight reduction. The Epi and Berg sound quite different and I assume that the Genz will be another different flavor. I agree, 70 pounds is at least doable!

 

[BigMikeW]

Now, the announcement of an Uber 212 might give me pause!

or maybe a 810 sized Uber412? They can call it the MDub cab if they want


ooh or an 810 sized cab with 212's in the bottom (seperated) and 410 up top?

Of course I am thinking touring sized cabs. Ken wouldn't use them. BUT he might be able to take a nap inside one.

 

[BigMikeW]

I am kind of a wimp! I look forward to trying this cab. I love my 410's and end up trying them all. I'm hoping they get a good dose of this stuff at Low Down Sound now that they are dealers.

Low Down is now a dealer? Very cool.

I feel very sorry for the Eden rep!



I agree with Eublet. From my very limited time with it at NAMM, it definitely sounds more "traditional" than an say an Epi410.

 

[KJung]

Ken, those are indeed fine cabs, but they don't sound like a traditional 410 to me. They don't have the low end girth, but rather are tight and punchy as you have described them. I would add that they are more open sounding as well.

I looked VERY seriously at EPI cabs before going with my current 212/112 cabs. I wanted very much to like the UL410 and especially the UL310. Neither were bad, but they didn't excite me very much either. I can see why so many love them, and they are definitely lightweight. I also tried to get into Accugroove cabs, and I spent several hours with them in various places. The Whappo was a darn fine cabinet, but too big for my needs, as most 410's are. Most all the AG cabs were nice, but just didn't really call my name.

In the end, no 410 really had much of what I want. If I had the need for a full stack, then a couple of 410's or an 810 would be great, but I'd want them to be of the more traditional voicing. Most of those 410's seem to be in the 90-110 lb range. If the Uber does that at 70 pounds, I can understand it's appeal, but it probably still wouldn't be for me. I'd like to try one just to hear it though. My 212xlt at 75 lbs seemed VERY light and easy to move. I'm guess an Uber 410 would be about the same.

Now, the announcement of an Uber 212 might give me pause!

+1 per my post above... all these cabs sound quite different and will appeal to different users. I can see where the new BergAE410 would appeal to more 'traditional 410 lovers', versus the somewhat hi fi Epi 410UL (II) voicing. All great stuff!

 

[KJung]

Low Down is now a dealer? Very cool.

I feel very sorry for the Eden rep!



I agree with Eublet. From my very limited time with it at NAMM, it definitely sounds more "traditional" than an say an Epi410.

Yeah, and between Mike (Mikebass) getting some of this stuff and Ryan ordering more, I will finally get to really check all this stuff out. Mike and I are trying to schedule a time to do the 6.0/F1 comparison, which will be an interesting one, since the design of those two are a little more similar than the LMII/6.0 that most have posted about. It should be fun!

 

[BigMikeW]

Yeah, and between Mike (Mikebass) getting some of this stuff and Ryan ordering more, I will finally get to really check all this stuff out. Mike and I are trying to schedule a time to do the 6.0/F1 comparison, which will be an interesting one, since the design of those two are a little more similar than the LMII/6.0 that most have posted about. It should be fun!

Sounds like a blast. Watching Mike play in a good day out right there.

Sorry for this momentary derail:

The F1 isn't going to sound anything like the Shuttle 6.0. I have heard the F1 and the Shuttle is much more "tubey" and warm compared to the F1. Why do you think the F1 is more comparable than the LMII?

 

[BigMikeW]

Here is what I tell people who ask me what the GB stuff sounds like.

GB heads have their own sound. To me it is just what a bass amp is suppose to sound like. Warm, full, rich, punchy and fast.

For instance, a GBE1200 is like getting a tighter and more controllable version of a DB750 without all the wool.

For the Eden players who ask I just say "if you like the Eden tone.... GB can do the Eden thang better than Eden"

That is why I am anxious to really test and play through the UB410.

 

[KJung]

Sounds like a blast. Watching Mike play in a good day out right there.

Sorry for this momentary derail:

The F1 isn't going to sound anything like the Shuttle 6.0. I have heard the F1 and the Shuttle is much more "tubey" and warm compared to the F1. Why do you think the F1 is more comparable than the LMII?

The 'class D vs. class D' thing. I'm sure they sound VERY different in the way that you describe, but they are both more similar in weight and design than the LMII/6.0, and I believe the price point is a touch closer. Also, interestingly, the F1 'grinds' a touch more when pushed than the very clean and smooth LMII, so I'm looking forward to hearing that little bit of SS grind when pushed compared to the tube pushed a little bit.

 

[BigMikeW]

The 'class D vs. class D' thing. I'm sure they sound VERY different in the way that you describe, but they are both more similar in weight and design than the LMII/6.0, and I believe the price point is a touch closer. Also, interestingly, the F1 'grinds' a touch more when pushed than the very clean and smooth LMII, so I'm looking forward to hearing that little bit of SS grind when pushed compared to the tube pushed a little bit.

Yeah see, to me, that is like comparing apples and oranges IMO.

It's kind of like the FET and Tube channels on the GBE1200. Both use the GBE1200 power plant but they are vastly different. I don't use the FET channel at all. Comparing the two wouldn't tell me much other than "hey, that is a great GK/SS tone (FET channel) and THAT is what a Tube pre/SS amp should sound like.

Again, IMO

 

[KJung]

Yeah see, to me, that is like comparing apples and oranges IMO.

It's kind of like the FET and Tube channels on the GBE1200. Both use the GBE1200 power plant but they are vastly different. I don't use the FET channel at all. Comparing the two wouldn't tell me much other than "hey, that is a great GK/SS tone (FET channel) and THAT is what a Tube pre/SS amp should sound like.

Again, IMO

I agree completely, just curious as to how they stack up and also differ (i.e., do they both have similar amounts of low end punch? can the 6.0 get 'clean enough' to make a more 'ss clean' player happy, can the F1 warm up enough when pushed to work in a variety of settings, etc.).

It seems like the 'punch and volume' question has been answered by others, who see the LMII/6.0 very similar in low end authority and total volume.

There still seems to be some 'confusion' regarding the clean tone capability of the 6.0 versus the MB stuff, and that's the comparison that I am looking forward to making (i.e., is the 6.0 a contender for players like me who like it totally crisp and clean, or is it the 'rock' model in the micro amp category.

I didn't particularly dig the Neo Pak, but that could have been mostly the headroom issue, and also the 'warm meets warm' pairing of the class A/B power amp with the tube in the pre.

Anyway, I always give all this small stuff a good pounding on!

 

[Eublet]

Agreed there, Mike. I think the LMII/Shuttle 6.0 is the most valid comparison, not the F1. Even though they are a different class, they seem to have much more similar applications and intended audience. The LMII is the one that is most often recommended for players looking for a warm tone and more traditional sound, not the F1. The power ratings are close enough to make them almost negligible. Both the F1 and the Shuttle 6.0 seem to be the SMPS amps that are seeking to better emulate the traditional feel and tone of a Class A/B with torodial PS. Even if the Shuttle 6.0 is class D, it doesn't appear that the typical Class D tone was any part of the design goal. My guess is that the F1 will appear worlds apart from the Shuttle 6.0, and should instead be compared with the 3.0, even though the power rating gap would be significant.

 

[Eublet]

I think the Neo-pak is VERY clean. I don't hear any grit when I set it up purposefully to leave it out, but it does still have tube characteristics, harmonics, and some slight low end bloom. IMO, to say it isn't clean means that it is somehow dirty, gritty, grindy, etc. All the things we typically use to describe a tube being overdriven a bit.

The Neo-pak does "tube-clean" if we can call it that. SS-clean is another animal. The difference between the two is very subtle to most players, and not noticeable at all to many others unless you do an A/B and help them to hear the differences. Shades of gray perhaps, until you really drive the tube.