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Ugly Rumble With Organ???

#21
DavC said:
i would think the standing waves from the old pipe organ would vary wildly throughout the room .. !!

the organist can cut out the ultra low pipes if they'd want to . !?
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Spectrum said:
I would never try to compete with a pipe organ, those things are awesome bass machines, and they are designed to sound great solo. Plus, any organist who play 3 parts using both hands and his feet is to be congratulated, that is a skill set I wish I had.
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Fact is... I was the one out of line as it were. I am not supposed to play on organ hymns. Just one of those things. Just had a couple of fills I had to put in. Liked the song.. All on me....... And yes, we are blessed with an ultra accomplished organist. Dude is super awesome. Totally not a worship music guy... But he tolerates it well.... Lol
 
#22
I think the OP realized the fault was playing improvised pretty little trills, not the Pipe Organ.

A Pipe Organ has many different voicings for each register, so it's pretty bold to play along with a different instrument besides vocals or maybe a high-registered instrument mic'd well enough to cut through. This isn't a matter of "not play low notes with the left hand" on a piano or synthesizer.

I used to play church organ (two to three keyboards, foot pedals). A skill that has long deteriorated.
--

But for sake of the argument, next week ask the organist to play a few notes on the foot pedals and test if you're both in tune and can potentially sound okay if you ever have another inspired moment to do bass solos.
 
#23
chungweishan said:
I think the OP realized the fault was playing improvised pretty little trills, not the Pipe Organ.

A Pipe Organ has many different voicings for each register, so it's pretty bold to play along with a different instrument besides vocals or maybe a high-registered instrument mic'd well enough to cut through. This isn't a matter of "not play low notes with the left hand" on a piano or synthesizer.

I used to play church organ (two to three keyboards, foot pedals). A skill that has long deteriorated.
--

But for sake of the argument, next week ask the organist to play a few notes on the foot pedals and test if you're both in tune and can potentially sound okay if you ever have another inspired moment to do bass solos.
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I will do exactly that... Thank you
 
#24
Some organ patches/voicings are among the most harmonically rich bass tones I've ever heard.

Especially when the organist is sustaining bass notes, this can cause a harmonic dissonance when combined with a bass player, even if they are both perfectly in tune and playing the exact same root and extended notes in the same key.

Pop/rock/jazz organists who use those ultra-rich voices and play with bassists have to just tap out their bass notes and be careful of sustained low notes.

I have actually quit a band because of a keyboardist who didn't get this concept and absolutely destroyed the bottom end by over-playing and sustaining low notes with some of his rich thick organ patches.
 
#25
Aberdumbie said:
Oddly enough the selection was Lead Me Guide Me in Eb..... I never play on organ hymns. Not my territory.. Organ tunes are solo ground and I know it... I have no idea what his note selection was. But I just wanted to do some nice fills... Was a good tune... I am voting next time we do that it will be with us "strings" and not the solo organ... I'm sure what it was was just an overload mish mash of low end. We were neither playing wrong. Just became bottom mud. I figured it out quickly enough and stayed silent after that
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Ok... Sounds like 2 things may be at play here ( one of which I also experienced just that)...

I play at church as well and on songs in Eb or Bb.... We often get a muddy low end in spots... The pianist has a fairly heavy left hand.... And when we play the Eb or Bb ( but the Eb seems to be the worst) we get the rumble mud you are taking about... So must be something with older churches that have a frequency of Eb?

When he took a break during preservice practice to church the singers ( with the rest of the band still playing) the muddiness disapeared...

Also... If you are not playing the same note (exactly) you will get a disonant rumble so maybe you were half a step off unintentionally? Or maybe... Like others have said... The organ may be a bit out of tune.

Interestingly... Ever try to play along with a Beatles song? Can't be done unless you "beatle tune".... :)
 
#26
Spectrum said:
I would never try to compete with a pipe organ, those things are awesome bass machines, and they are designed to sound great solo. Plus, any organist who play 3 parts using both hands and his feet is to be congratulated, that is a skill set I wish I had.
Click to expand...


I agree... My father in law played the organ and I was always amazed to watch his he coordinated 2 hands and 2 feet.... All playing different things
 
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#27
When our organist (Schantz 48 rank) broke his leg I was asked to play the bass notes from his arrangement. I stood directly behind him and just played what he would have played with his feet. It was magnificent, but scary for me. Mainly because I couldn't see anything as the top of the organ was so high and the room was behind us. FWIW I used a very small combo and was told my bass blended in very well.
 
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#29
A few years ago the Kennedy Center in DC installed a bran new pipe organ made in Montreal. The thing took 2 years to build, 3 months to install, several days to tune, and then a few months to "voice", which is basically tone-chasing. I haven't had a chance to see it live yet, but it's supposed to sound amazing. I love pipe organs; they are one of the oldest instruments and they are amazing mechanical devices. I am guessing that before the invention of air pumps some poor souls had to work the bellows for the duration of each performance.

 
#31
Just for fun:



The above isn't it but we sometimes go to the nearby Ocean Grove Great Auditorium for their pipe organ recitals during the summer. The sound of the organ in a building that immense is unbelievable.

Part of The Great Auditorium:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And from backstage:

Great-Auditorium-2.jpg
 
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#35
The organist usually lays off the bass pedals when the entire orchestra plays. This prevents the muddiness that can occur. when the Choir sings a choir special, they usually do it with just the organist and pianist/keyboardist. In the rare occasion we both play bass parts, I play up the neck and octave and do like you did, play fills and the like. It really has never been a problem. In all the years we have played we have spoken about an issue once.
Like your church, ours is older and not made to house a choir, orchestra, and keyboardists. It can lead to some serious sonic headaches, LOL!
 
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