Ultra boutique P bass pickups

[shughey]

IMHO............the differences between so called "boutique" Precision Bass pickups is soooooooooooo minute! Let's see. AlNiCo 5 magnets. Copper wire. Wax potting or shellac or lacquer potting. Resistance around 10 k ohm to 12 k ohm. Scatter winding or whatever? What's the magic?

Buy a set of Fender Original Precision Bass pickups or Seymour Duncan SPB-1.......same money. Get excellent results. You'll be fine.

Don't get "sucked in"! Unless if it makes you feel secure.

It's not much different than comparing two of the same of a lot of different things. Two of the same jeans, two of the same basses, two of the same baseball bats, etc. Those differences are important to some, and not important to others. Furthermore, some of the differences here can be nuanced. Inherently, sublties will go over some folk's heads. And that's not an excuse, that's me quite-frankly-saying that some people's ears aren't good enough to hear the subtleties. "Subtle" is relative though, "subtle" to some can be "glaring obvious" to another. In other words, the "subleties" in the differences in these pups are very noticeable to me.

In regards to split-coil pups, different magnets and magnetic strength, different wire and bobbin construction, DCR and winding type mostly cover it, but that just means each of those individual things has greater influence to the overall sound. Again, the difference between quickly grabbing a pair of Levi's in your size that technically fit, vs spending the time to find a pair that FIT. If you're fine w/ Levi's that sort-of-fit because you can't tell the difference or don't care, then whatever, that's fine too. That's not me though.

 

[DarnellBass]

Curtis Novaks are outstanding; I've ordered 3 sets from him. Tell him the sound your looking for, he'll nail it.

 

[Texican]

This thread has been a great read! I thought I had it narrowed down to two pickups... now I’m back to the drawing board.

 

[AMJBASS]

Curtis Novaks are outstanding; I've ordered 3 sets from him. Tell him the sound your looking for, he'll nail it.

100%

After talking to Curtis, I ordered one of his PB-V pickups, and so far it has been absolutely fantastic! I've had it on several different gigs in the last few weeks from loud country rock on big stages, to R&B/Jazz gigs, to theater stuff and a recording session. There was nothing wrong with the stock pickup in my Road Worn, but this one is on another level. Its got that classic hollow mid range, with a sound that sits just perfectly in the mix. I really do think after all my experimenting there is something to be said for high quality hand wound pickups. There is just clarity and "air" about them. I've done a ton of gigs with a Duncan SPB-1, and its a great pickup in its own right, but even with only having the Novak for a few weeks, I have already received several compliments from engineers about how my bass sounds in the mix. I'm tempted to order one of his PB-90 pickups to see how it compares against the SPB-4 I use in my other P-Bass.

 

[Laurent]

100%

After talking to Curtis, I ordered one of his PB-V pickups, and so far it has been absolutely fantastic! I've had it on several different gigs in the last few weeks from loud country rock on big stages, to R&B/Jazz gigs, to theater stuff and a recording session. There was nothing wrong with the stock pickup in my Road Worn, but this one is on another level. Its got that classic hollow mid range, with a sound that sits just perfectly in the mix. I really do think after all my experimenting there is something to be said for high quality hand wound pickups. There is just clarity and "air" about them. I've done a ton of gigs with a Duncan SPB-1, and its a great pickup in its own right, but even with only having the Novak for a few weeks, I have already received several compliments from engineers about how my bass sounds in the mix. I'm tempted to order one of his PB-90 pickups to see how it compares against the SPB-4 I use in my other P-Bass.

How do you hear the SPB-4 vs the Curtis PB-V?
I always dig your pickup comments, you have great ears.

 

[AMJBASS]

The SPB-4 is quite a bit different than the PB-V. Its got a lot more output, with a big growly low end and a clear top end. Its not scooped like the SPB3, or just big and a bit dull like an overwound pickup can sometimes sound. I like it a lot. To me, its sort of similar to the Geezer, but with more natural sounding high mids. Awesome pickup for rock, or a dense mix. The Novak PB-V is voiced like a vintage pickup, and has a lower output. I am comparing them in 2 different(although both great sounding) basses, so its not an exact comparison, but I like them both a lot!

 

[TheCouchBassist]

Has anyone tried Novak’s PB-Fat?

 

[Laurent]

The SPB-4 is quite a bit different than the PB-V. Its got a lot more output, with a big growly low end and a clear top end. Its not scooped like the SPB3, or just big and a bit dull like an overwound pickup can sometimes sound. I like it a lot. To me, its sort of similar to the Geezer, but with more natural sounding high mids. Awesome pickup for rock, or a dense mix. The Novak PB-V is voiced like a vintage pickup, and has a lower output. I am comparing them in 2 different(although both great sounding) basses, so its not an exact comparison, but I like them both a lot!

Thank you very much. Great comments and feedback.
I had a Novak PB-V a few years back and I've been on the sidelines with regards to the SPB-4.

 

[Down_Low]

The SPB-4 is quite a bit different than the PB-V. Its got a lot more output, with a big growly low end and a clear top end. Its not scooped like the SPB3, or just big and a bit dull like an overwound pickup can sometimes sound. I like it a lot. To me, its sort of similar to the Geezer, but with more natural sounding high mids. Awesome pickup for rock, or a dense mix. The Novak PB-V is voiced like a vintage pickup, and has a lower output. I am comparing them in 2 different(although both great sounding) basses, so its not an exact comparison, but I like them both a lot!

Is the Novak fairly flat across the EQ spectrum? How’re the highs on it?

 

[AMJBASS]

The Novak has a sound that sits clear in a mix. Its got a sweet high end, that I would say is bright without being aggressive. Tonally its a bit more in the late 60's territory. Big, but a bit brighter with a tight and punchy low end. Sits great in the mix without sounding remotely muddy.

 

[Down_Low]

The Novak has a sound that sits clear in a mix. Its got a sweet high end, that I would say is bright without being aggressive. Tonally its a bit more in the late 60's territory. Big, but a bit brighter with a tight and punchy low end. Sits great in the mix without sounding remotely muddy.

Sounds like it’s what I’m looking for, thanks.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

IMHO............the differences between so called "boutique" Precision Bass pickups is soooooooooooo minute! Let's see. AlNiCo 5 magnets. Copper wire. Wax potting or shellac or lacquer potting. Resistance around 10 k ohm to 12 k ohm. Scatter winding or whatever? What's the magic?

Buy a set of Fender Original Precision Bass pickups or Seymour Duncan SPB-1.......same money. Get excellent results. You'll be fine.

Don't get "sucked in"! Unless if it makes you feel secure.

Here's the difference, having swapped dozens of magnets in guitar humbuckers, the magnet type, actual composition and especially how hot the magnet is CHARGED.

This is something that cannot be measured easily by us...plus the pickup HEIGHT, which will vary widely according to pickup charge.

I do use the Duncan SPB1 as a benchmark...matter of fact i have only 1 that has been in & out of several basses...need to buy another!

 

[kevinpmajka]

What is that pickguard make? That is stellar!
Very cool share on your experience.

Here’s another one for consideration. Gemini Pickups from Newburgh, NY.

Small builder who does a lot of unique guitar and bass pickups for some very high end builders.

I asked him to send me his standard take on a P-Bass pickup.

I swapped out the Aguilar pickup that was in there tonight and I was pleasantly surprised.

The best way to describe it is a vintage P-bass pickup with just enough balls without becoming overwhelming.

It’s has a focused and punchy bottom end and it has that grindy treble that I like out of a wide open p-bass pickup.

It reminds me a bit of an SPB-1, but just better sounding overall.

Check him out!

View attachment 3559550

View attachment 3559549

 

[e-flat]

The Novak has a sound that sits clear in a mix. Its got a sweet high end, that I would say is bright without being aggressive. Tonally its a bit more in the late 60's territory. Big, but a bit brighter with a tight and punchy low end. Sits great in the mix without sounding remotely muddy.

I have two Novak PB-V pickups: one that measures 10.6K in my main alder body P Bass, and a second that’s closer to 10.8K in an ash P Bass. @AMJBASS ’s description of the Novak PB-V is dead on. Nice balanced tone, great depth in the low end with a beautiful clarity on low notes. High end is sweet & rich, mids aren’t pushed or ”barky” at all. Love the PB-V

 

[thisSNsucks]

What is that pickguard make? That is stellar!
Very cool share on your experience.

Thanks, that’s one of my builds. I’ve done a few threads over in the luthiers corner you can check out.

Rob is actually building me a 5 string version of that pickup as we speak.

Until now I’ve only used the Aguilar P5 pickup, which I find sounds even a smidge warmer than the 4 string version, but that warm yet clear thing the Aguilar does translates to a nice sounding B string.

 

[bassdude51]

Here's the difference, having swapped dozens of magnets in guitar humbuckers, the magnet type, actual composition and especially how hot the magnet is CHARGED.

This is something that cannot be measured easily by us...plus the pickup HEIGHT, which will vary widely according to pickup charge.

I do use the Duncan SPB1 as a benchmark...matter of fact i have only 1 that has been in & out of several basses...need to buy another!

I agree with what you say. Little differences in pickup construction do make a difference. My overly simplified comment was saying, $70 vs $200. Is it worth it for minute differences? Basically, the materials and construction are nearly the same for a so called vintage type P Bass pickup.

AlNiCo 5 magnets. Please educate me. My understanding is that there is a max limit to them being charged. They can not be over-charged. After a certain point, that is it. Done. Charged.

But 5s, can be "undercharged" but not over-charged.

If a more powerful magnet is wanted, then either a larger diameter 5 needs to be used or a different AlNiCo magnet. Like AlNiCo 8s.

Subtle differences..............tight winding vs loose winding. 100% paraffin wax vs 80%/20% with bees wax. There a many other differences too. Rio Grande uses a taller bobbin which makes for a thinner coil which is closer to the magnet poles.

A horrible illustration and excuse me please. Everybody makes a pot of chili differently. It's still chili. Everybody makes a P pickup differently. It's still a P pickup.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

I agree with what you say. Little differences in pickup construction do make a difference. My overly simplified comment was saying, $70 vs $200. Is it worth it for minute differences? Basically, the materials and construction are nearly the same for a so called vintage type P Bass pickup.

AlNiCo 5 magnets. Please educate me. My understanding is that there is a max limit to them being charged. They can not be over-charged. After a certain point, that is it. Done. Charged.

But 5s, can be "undercharged" but not over-charged.

If a more powerful magnet is wanted, then either a larger diameter 5 needs to be used or a different AlNiCo magnet. Like AlNiCo 8s.

Subtle differences..............tight winding vs loose winding. 100% paraffin wax vs 80%/20% with bees wax. There a many other differences too. Rio Grande uses a taller bobbin which makes for a thinner coil which is closer to the magnet poles.

A horrible illustration and excuse me please. Everybody makes a pot of chili differently. It's still chili. Everybody makes a P pickup differently. It's still a P pickup.

Well, the magnet charge is a big factor between brands....same with vintage Fender pickups.....im not convinced that all A5 are the same (they arent) but im not going to get into details which you have covered!

Pickup HEIGHT is still a major factor....i pulled the short A5 magnets out of my 65 SG Special because they werent strong enough as a pair in the bridge P-90...those same magnets sound wonderful in a couple of HighOrder 'PAF types'...the A8 yielded more bottom end and is just as smooth in the bridge P-90 (8.7k which is hot for a vintage Gibson P-90)....also the SG has been refinned several times and likely lost some wood so i attempted to compensate with the powerful A8....i have thought about using fully charged ceramic magnets as well! But the pickup height is crucial ime.

Look i have a pair of MIM Fender basses, a J & P and both have stock ceramics...much of the tone is the neck resonance and crucial pickup height and setup etc...they sound decent, still very much a 'P bass' sound and 'J bass' sound.

If these basses were sort of 'dead' in terms of resonance and sustain, a pickup is hard pressed to make a difference imo.

 

[bassdude51]

Well, the magnet charge is a big factor between brands....same with vintage Fender pickups.....im not convinced that all A5 are the same (they arent) but im not going to get into details which you have covered!

Pickup HEIGHT is still a major factor....i pulled the short A5 magnets out of my 65 SG Special because they werent strong enough as a pair in the bridge P-90...those same magnets sound wonderful in a couple of HighOrder 'PAF types'...the A8 yielded more bottom end and is just as smooth in the bridge P-90 (8.7k which is hot for a vintage Gibson P-90)....also the SG has been refinned several times and likely lost some wood so i attempted to compensate with the powerful A8....i have thought about using fully charged ceramic magnets as well! But the pickup height is crucial ime.

Look i have a pair of MIM Fender basses, a J & P and both have stock ceramics...much of the tone is the neck resonance and crucial pickup height and setup etc...they sound decent, still very much a 'P bass' sound and 'J bass' sound.

If these basses were sort of 'dead' in terms of resonance and sustain, a pickup is hard pressed to make a difference imo.

I'm 100% with you on pickup height! A major critical factor in best sound. IME, I've found that too close to the strings sounds worse than too far away. But there is that "spot". Goldilocks spot. Not too close but not too far.

Boutique winder Mr. Pollack of Aero Instruments has a prescribed pickup height that is "religious".

I go with Fender's recommendations on pickup height because it ends up sounding the best to me. A wee less than 1/8" from the strings when pressed at the last fret, magnet pole to bottom of E string. And about 1/32" closer for the G string. YMMV.

Now, pickups with AlNiCo bar magnets with screws.........they recommend getting the pickup as close as possible without the strings hitting up against when playing. I have a Carvin LB90. Carvin says get 'em as close as ya can. I agree.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Keep in mind with regards to guitars, different alnico magnets such as A2 have softer magnetic fields so according to Seymour Duncan, A2 can be moved closer or further away.

I dont know how this applies to bass guitars...i dont see many A2 magnets being used as they have a softer, more compressed feel...which could be an advantage depending on the application...matter of fact, since i have an abundance of magnets and guitar humbuckers, i am going to route a Fender Bronco for a humbucker size...this way i can swap magnets in & out since im not after a straight up P or J bass sound...should be fun!

 

[bassdude51]

Keep in mind with regards to guitars, different alnico magnets such as A2 have softer magnetic fields so according to Seymour Duncan, A2 can be moved closer or further away.

I dont know how this applies to bass guitars...i dont see many A2 magnets being used as they have a softer, more compressed feel...which could be an advantage depending on the application...matter of fact, since i have an abundance of magnets and guitar humbuckers, i am going to route a Fender Bronco for a humbucker size...this way i can swap magnets in & out since im not after a straight up P or J bass sound...should be fun!

Fender's Original Jazz Bass replacement pickups..........strangely use AlNiCo 2 magnets.

S. Duncan's Antiquity Precision Bass Pickup for 1951 to '57 Ps use A2 magnets.

A2 mentioned in this eBay description taken from Fender.

Fender Original Jazz J Bass Pickup Set Bridge Neck Pickups 0992123000 NEW 717669510985 | eBay