Ultra flat cabs

[Redbrangus]

I've always liked the sound of the big Magnepans a lot when I've had the privilege of listening to them, but I had always understood them to be electrostatic, so I guess I stand corrected on that count. I'll still need to be convinced that the technology can get loud enough to serve as a bass amp speaker though. Lovely hi-fi speakers, in any case.

 

[agedhorse]

I asked the Perplexity.ai bot what this technology is in context of a bass guitar speaker. Answer:

Magnetic planar technology, also known as planar magnetic technology, is an innovative approach to speaker design that offers several advantages for bass guitar amplification. Here's an overview of how it works and its benefits for bass players:

## How Planar Magnetic Speakers Work

Planar magnetic speakers use a flat diaphragm suspended between two rows of magnets, rather than the traditional cone-shaped driver found in conventional speakers[2][3]. The diaphragm, typically made of a thin film material like Mylar or Kapton, has a conductive trace pattern on it. When an electrical signal is applied, it interacts with the magnetic field, causing the diaphragm to move and produce sound[3].

## Advantages for Bass Players

1. **Fast and Accurate Low-End Response**: Planar magnetic speakers offer a very fast and accurate low-end response, which is crucial for bass guitar[2]. This allows for precise reproduction of bass notes and transients.

2. **Extended Low Frequency Response**: These speakers can provide extended low frequency response beyond what's typically achievable with other speaker technologies[2]. This means deeper, more articulate bass.

3. **Improved Harmonic Reproduction**: The technology allows for more accurate reproduction of higher order harmonics, resulting in more precise pitch and timbre[2]. This is particularly important for bass, as it helps maintain clarity and definition even in low frequencies.

4. **Low Distortion**: Planar magnetic drivers generally produce lower distortion compared to traditional cone drivers, resulting in cleaner, more accurate bass reproduction[3].

5. **Wide Frequency Response**: These speakers can handle a broader range of frequencies accurately, which is beneficial for bass guitars that often have extended ranges[3].

6. **Durability**: With fewer moving parts, planar magnetic drivers can potentially be more durable than traditional cone drivers[3]. However, it's worth noting that they can also be fragile and easily damaged if not handled properly.

## Considerations

While planar magnetic technology offers several advantages, there are some considerations for bass players:

1. **Power Requirements**: These speakers often require more powerful amplifiers to drive them effectively[3].

2. **Size and Weight**: Planar magnetic speakers can be larger and heavier than traditional speakers, which may affect portability[3].

3. **Cost**: They are generally more expensive to manufacture, which can result in higher prices for the end consumer[3].

Despite these considerations, many bass players find that the superior sound quality and accuracy of planar magnetic speakers outweigh the potential drawbacks. The technology's ability to deliver fast, accurate, and detailed bass reproduction makes it an attractive option for bassists seeking the highest quality sound[1][2].

Citations:
[1] Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
[2] Why Our Planar Magnetic Technology is Better for Bass Players - FinalGuitar
[3] Guide to Planar Magnetic and Ribbon Loudspeakers | In Sheeps Clothing
[4]
[5] Planar the II | Avantone Pro
[6] PLANAR MAGNETICS - Wisdom Audio
[7] Magnepan DWM - Planar Magnetic Bass Panel
[8] Audeze Planar Magnetic Technology - End game audio

Be aware that this is all AI generated material, taken from the manufacturer's promotional and advertising materials, and in my experience does not reflect factual information (by quite a bit). I would say that about 30% of this is accurate more or less.

 

[Loring]

Be aware that this is all AI generated material, taken from the manufacturer's promotional and advertising materials, and in my experience does not reflect factual information (by quite a bit). I would say that about 30% of this is accurate more or less.

That was my thought also. Looked like an enhanced web search pulling marketing material. Especially since bass players are not currently using this product (or similar).

 

[MultiScaleMale]

AI is good for some tasks, not so good for others.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I hope some of these cabs are built with the dimensional ratio of 1, 4, 9.

 

[agedhorse]

I hope some of these cabs are built with the dimensional ratio of 1, 4, 9.

how about 3.14... to 1?

 

[ardgedee]

how about 3.14... to 1?

How about (4/3)πr^3? Not as flat, but plenty of volume.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

how about 3.14... to 1?

 

[fdeck]

It's an electromagnetic transducer.

US4837838A - Electromagnetic transducer of improved efficiency - Google Patents

An electromagnetic transducer is disclosed wherein separate elongated strips of magnetic material are secured on both sides of a plane containing a flat flexible insulating thin-film diaphragm. Conductors attached to the diaphram extend primarily parallel to the magnetic strips and cause...

patents.google.com

 

[YourGuitarist]

How about (4/3)πr^3? Not as flat, but plenty of volume.

The round sound of you will.

 

[abarson]

IIRC, electrostat speakers for deep-end hi-fi like Maggies were really good, but needed subwoofers for 'down there' for deep bass.

As a longtime owner of a pair of Carver ALS-III electrostatic ribbon speakers, indeed you need a subwoofer for any bass. The ribbons excel at mids and highs.

 

[agedhorse]

It's an electromagnetic transducer.

US4837838A - Electromagnetic transducer of improved efficiency - Google Patents

An electromagnetic transducer is disclosed wherein separate elongated strips of magnetic material are secured on both sides of a plane containing a flat flexible insulating thin-film diaphragm. Conductors attached to the diaphram extend primarily parallel to the magnetic strips and cause...

patents.google.com

So reading between the lines, if you follow the assignment history and the claimed success of the technology, it's clear that there was nothing compelling enough about the IP to allow any of these companies to become successful. In fact all of the companies involved with this patent are long gone with no commercial product ever released. The fact that they are still trying to make a go of it after almost 40 years (patent issued in 1987) with no success is somewhat puzzling, yet telling at the same time.

 

[fdeck]

So reading between the lines, if you follow the assignment history and the claimed success of the technology, it's clear that there was nothing compelling enough about the IP to allow any of these companies to become successful. In fact all of the companies involved with this patent are long gone with no commercial product ever released. The fact that they are still trying to make a go of it after almost 40 years (patent issued in 1987) with no success is somewhat puzzling, yet telling at the same time.

Wow, I didn't even look at the year. I was just interested in seeing how it works.

Since it's an electromagnetic driver, it inexorably obeys Thiele-Small theory. I think in the pictures I've seen, the guitar speakers have open backs. If you try to enclose the driver, Hoffman's Law will have a word to say with you.

There's kind of a tortoise-hare problem with speakers. During the time it takes for a radical new technology to reach fruition, the old technology has been undergoing incremental development of its own. In fact, this is a familiar story in a lot of technology areas, including semiconductors and car engines.

 

[ardgedee]

It's an electromagnetic transducer.

US4837838A - Electromagnetic transducer of improved efficiency - Google Patents

An electromagnetic transducer is disclosed wherein separate elongated strips of magnetic material are secured on both sides of a plane containing a flat flexible insulating thin-film diaphragm. Conductors attached to the diaphram extend primarily parallel to the magnetic strips and cause...

patents.google.com

Huh. Today I learned there's a whole patent category for this: "H04R9/047: Construction in which the windings of the moving coil lay in the same plane". A bit over 3,000 patents there. Relative merits of most of them are out of my paygrade to critique.

 

[6thplanet]

There's a few manufacturers making planar drivers for the hifi market, B&G being one of the more well known ones. Radian, HiVi, and now GRS also have offerings.
They do a fantastic job for mid and high frequencies, but as noted by others, need traditional moving coil transducers for bass.

I've designed a few speakers utilizing planar tweeters. Both of these...

...and this one.

 

[ardgedee]

Be aware that this is all AI generated material, taken from the manufacturer's promotional and advertising materials, and in my experience does not reflect factual information (by quite a bit). I would say that about 30% of this is accurate more or less.

Not only is Perplexity bad at being "AI", it is bad at information gathering and actively hostile to site owners. Using it is, broadly speaking, an F-U to everybody except the techbros hell-bent on enriching themselves at everyone else's expense.

I can't possibly emphasize enough how useless and bad it is; the fact that it bears an appearance of usefulness is principally a reflection of how much Google and Bing have degraded their own search services.

 

[Bob_Ross]

There's a few manufacturers making planar drivers for the hifi market, B&G being one of the more well known ones. Radian, HiVi, and now GRS also have offerings.
They do a fantastic job for mid and high frequencies, but as noted by others, need traditional moving coil transducers for bass.

Trivia: David Graebner (the "G" from "B&G" aka Bohlender-Graebner) split off from the B&G company and founded Wisdom Audio before he passed away. (Wisdom Audio was one of the companies whose marketing schpiel was regurgitated by the Perplexity.ai bot in post #58.) One could probably argue that Wisdom Audio is the most successful company currently working with planar-magnetic drivers

...but yes, even they use conventional moving-coil (cone) drivers for low frequencies.

 

[ardgedee]

Since it's an electromagnetic driver, it inexorably obeys Thiele-Small theory. I think in the pictures I've seen, the guitar speakers have open backs. If you try to enclose the driver, Hoffman's Law will have a word to say with you.

The back of their guitar speaker looks like perforated MDF or Masonite. I don't know if this is enough ventilation to qualify as open-backed or if it's more like a multitude of micro-ports.

 

[6thplanet]

Also shows where the magnets are.

 

[seamonkey]

This patent
Invalid Link Removed
Looks like a bunch of tactile transducers mounted to two flat panels.

The abstract seems to indicate it's meant to mount on a wall.
The guitar/bass cabinet sitting out in the room would look to be a dipole placement and would be horrible for bass.

I'm not holding my breath that this is any kind of revolutionary design.