Umanov guitars closing- rant!

[GretschWretch]

Skipping from page 1 to page 3 of the thread, back in the mid-60s (a pox on the eighties) in a six block area we had five music stores and three really good pawn shops (living near an air base didn't hurt, RE the pawns). Two of the stores were of the snobs, by the snobs, and for the snobs. The others were great, and among them we could get any brand of bass made. But the main difference between them and the status quo du jour is that those brick and mortars would service your instrument and take trade-ins on purchase of a new instrument, which led to some really interesting inventory turnover. Plus all the garage banders from the various high schools would gather in the district on Saturday mornings, which over time created a sense of community. Those things, I miss very much.

The most interesting brick and mortar I have been in recently is Atomic Music in Greenbelt, MD; a store whose inventory is simply jaw-dropping, and it's all used. They offer 70% trade-in value against purchase; it's what keeps them in business.

 

[AcridSaint]

Recently in Raleighwood:

Sam Ash during a weekday - no help offered in basses or percussion. I found a djembe I wanted, had no price tag. It only took 47 minutes to get a price and when I did, the price was right and I purchased. Experience still sucked. More employees in store than customers.

Guitar Center - ALWAYS loud as FRUK. Never get asked if I need help. Eventually pin some guy down behind an unrelated counter and beg him to take my money so I can buy a mic stand

Harry's Guitar Center - beg counter dude to tell me where the bass strings are. Greeted with a grunt and a pointing of fingers.

25 years ago, Falls Church, VA, Rolls Music Center
Was the only place within a half-hour that had any kind of selection, and it was a grand selection. God forbid you asked someone to try an instrument out. Normal greeting: You a buyer or a kicker? They eventually went under. Shocker.

Haven't bought anything worth over $50 in a local music store since the 80's.

EF'M

Online purchases don't involve a human until there is a problem. Whenever humans are involved, you never know what kind of human you are going to get.

I basically concur with this, although I've had decent experiences with Harry's. Too bad they just don't have all that many basses.

 

[GretschWretch]

Hopefully my new bass is on the FedEx truck; but despairingly, it might not be.

 

[James Collins]

Music stores have traditionally been part of our social lives. We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.
Small music stores, even the very specialized and high end ones are all in danger!
Matt Uminov's store is closing it's doors after 50 years.
Why?
Because the instrument has stopped being a personalized thing. It is a commodity, to be delivered by the UPS man, after careful perusal of photographs on a website.
I can't even begin to tell you how wrong that is. Buying completely in the dark, and then adapting YOUR music to fit the instrument that FEDEX dropped off while you played video games.
People bitch and moan about how quality is slipping from the big manufactures. Maybe, but more of it is- in the 'old' days, each instrument was checked over, set up, and THEN put on the wall. Missing parts (gibson) and dry fingerboards (fender, and others) where caught, and corrected before any buyer ever even saw the guitar!
Beginners! Search Amazon/GC for hours without ever speaking to the bass player at the music store. Then they buy something entirely wrong for their interests, because it got good amazon reviews. What a dumb ass way to buy a first instrument! Then the kid gives up music from trying to play Metalica on his beetle bass, or bought a fretless cause they look really cool.
We have become complacent. We settle for whatever the big box music store sends us, and we're happy, because we don't know any better. And, we don't care.
I learned so much hanging out at music stores. A lot of the guys I met were touring pros, and were always willing to share. Later, I sold instruments, in stores that cared. We sat down, and demonstrated to the non players, and discussed their dreams and aspirations. We helped parents budget, and talked about lessons.
I will not even go into the number of threads on this site, and others, that start with- it arrived damaged, it arrived needing a set up, it was not as advertised. I'm sorry to point out who the sucker is here!
Matt Uminov's guitars is closing. So are most mom and pop music stores.
There is only ONE person to blame- the one who says 'the FEDEX truck is here, I can start my music career'. Did FEDEX remind you to buy a tuner?
Rant over.

My reason for not buying local is none of my local mom and shop stores carry enough selection because they can't.

Worse is the classical guitar world. In general if you want a classical guitar you have 3 options. $100 brand x which you find in every mom and pop store. $500-2,000 Cordoba which you can find in most guitar center or online. Or $4,000-40,000 custom made guitar from a builder you don't know and have no way to try out before you order an instrument and wait 1-5 years to get your instrument. I imagine that's what bass guitar will be like in 100 years.

 

[Deak]

Not at all. The new dynamics of music retail is of detriment to everybody. Customers will lose faith in otherwise good products. Mail order Stores don't want a million SKU's, so they will only stock the biggest sellers, and after sale service is gone with the wind. Everybody loses eventually.

I have to respectfully disagree here. Yours is a glass half empty rant.

You really have the best of both worlds. I understand that you feel the regret that the mom and pop or family relationship is vanishing. It is regrettable, especially for those of use that have had that relationship as part of our growing up. It feels warmly ingrained in part of our core being. But . . . . .

The reality is that unless you feel that you HAVE to personally try out a specific bass (or name music product here), which I have, the Super stores already have millions of SKU's and better guarantees, more choices, return policies and warranties than most all of the smaller shops. They have massive data systems to serve you anything you want. They don't watch your tail lights go over the hill and then forget, on the contrary, there are many, many posts of folks here that would rather not get the follow up phone calls post sale.

I use Sweetwater and Musician's Friend quite often. Mostly Sweetwater. I trust them without fear of being set up and a two year warranty?!?!? If it's damaged, you return it with no cost. If you decide you don't like it, send it back and pay the shipping. Shipping anywhere is a hassle but it's a no argument hassle with them. If you damage it and return it then yep, you can expect a charge. That seems fair enough to me.

My heart jumps when I'm traveling and see a small shop. Most often, if I have the time, I'll go in and check it out. Mind you, sometimes I get ignored and more than once I've been asked if' I'm buying or looking. Some of the good ole' days ideals stink in today's die hard small shops "apparently" trying to make it.

My local, Music on Mass, in Lawrence, KS., is a small shop customers dream come true. A luthier with major creds runs and owns the shop. Been here forever, and because it is a college town, it most likely will be here for quite some time. A bit more expensive mind you, but no one seems to care. The dude and his store/employees are respected. That is what I remember about the old days, the owners had class and knowledge and most of them outfitted the schools with wind, brass and percussion. They went to the schools and earned their business. ymmv but I doubt it.

I will be traveling to Wildwood Guitars in CO. soon because I want a Ric and I am adamant about hands on for this particular bass. Because I want it that way, I'll do the ten hour drive . . . one way. It's gonna be a blast, cuz I will make it that way.

In today's world, sometimes, you have to drive further to pass GO and and collect your 200.

Times change, embrace it and make sure those you deal with bring harm to no one, or find those that add value in a personal old kind of way. We are all teachers weather we think so or not. It is a result of interaction.

Peace. Now go out and play. (I would give anything to hear my mom say that again).

 

[Drgonzonm]

Recently, a local music store went under. Lease came due, and owner did not want to move and continue in business. I had amps repaired there, I bought cables, straps and basses from Grandma's. I had been to a couple of other stores in town, but Grandma's was convenient, I didn't have to cross the river and fight town traffic. (The other side of the river was once claimed by Texas. Texans aren't one of the protected groups claimed by PC is it? )
One of our band members the BL, has a nephew who owns a local music store, We suggested T-shirts that said GOODBYE
Grandma's Hello XMXMXM. We didn't get the shirts.
Guess I will have to cross the river and buy from another local store. I try to stay out of the National Stores, unless they have a part the local stores don't have.
It's sad to lose a local, but unfortunately that's the economics of the business.
Its economics when the 70 year old owner want's to call it quits. Guess younger family members didn't want to work a half a day, you know noon to midnight or midnight to noon.

 

[Mosfed]

I have been in Matt Umanov 2 or 3 times.

It is a shame that's it's closing, but what can we do.

They had a short interview with Matt Umanov on WPIX news last night, and he is 70, and said business isn't what it used to be.

He's not being forced out, since he owns the building.

Everything is 20% off, and they expect to stay open until early January, 2018.

Mike

So now it's only 35% more than you'll pay on Reverb. I LOVE music stores and I really really dislike Umanov.

 

[BEADG63]

The Cream City Music Story

Both shops sell on-line as well. Excellent customer service at both.

I have purchased several items online at Cream City, and they have great customer service. Very pleased in my dealings with them!

 

[Mosfed]

So he charges 625 for a Mexican fender that costs 600 every where else. Someone should pay more to keep him in business? (Not him specifically. This is standard for small shops.)

1300 for a musicmaster? I wish him a happy retirement.

In 2003, walked in there because I was looking for a 1975 Fender jazz in natural with blocks and a white pickguard and they had one that looked nice. He was asking for $3k. This is in 2003, when a mid 70s jazz were pretty routine for $1-1.5K. When I mentioned that the salesman offered to throw in a set of flats.

A few years later when the Cabronita basses came out, they were $600 everywhere. Except Umanov's (who happened to have the only candy apple red in town). There they were $750. Screw that.

 

[40Hz]

Disclaimer: I accept that each individuals experiences differ. I'm only relating my own.

You're far from alone. I had gone into a store that would later become a chain shortly before they got big. I was in my early twenties, and had the temerity to ask to try one of the PBs hanging on the wall.

The chief weasel-in-charge said "You don't need to try it. It's a Fender Precision Bass. Just buy it!"

When I told him I was a Gibson bass owner and needed to try it (and ignored the smirk he gave me about that) he said "Before I pull it down I need to see you got the money for it first. Store rules."

So I opened my wallet so he could see there was $400 in it (which would have covered it back then) and stood there while he disappeared and came back with a ladder, opened it up, and laboriously and nervously climbed up barely enough to get the bass down.

When he got back down, I smiled and said "No thanks" and headed for the door.

I almost made it outside before he caught up to me. "I thought you wanted to buy this bass. What are you trying to pull?" he said.

I told I did want to buy it, and probably would have, but I changed my mind and thought it'd be more interesting to see what it felt like being a total bozo to somebody like he was being with me.

I got out of there fast before it escalated any further.

 

[AngusHasMoxie]

I guess the solution is everyone gets rid of their internet then?

New buyers are scared to walk into music stores because they don't know anything, they don't want to feel intimidated. Parents buying online means they have access to seemingly independent reviews, rather than a salesman trying to talk them up in price.

This is what modern business is. It sucks that small stores have to close but our culture is what it is, and the music business is going to adapt to that. Local shops need an online presence.

 

[74hc]

OP, I don't believe the average experience of customers in music stores back in the days was close to what you describe. Less so.

Also those people that hang out in the music store and help others, they hang out on the Internet and Youtube nowadays. Not because there is no music stores in their area. It's just because they can reach a wider audience and be more specific on what they're discussing.

For music stores to stay in business, they need to short-cut what the major manufacturers are doing.... buying from overseas factories, and reselling in the USA. They need to arrange their own contract buying overseas direct to their stores, but many are not doing that. They are still stuck in the world of classic wholesalers and distributors.

 

[non]

i tried supporting my local music store but they just don't carry the things i need. i even once had them order something for me that i could have gotten on line. it took three weeks to get it and i could have had it in one week had i ordered it myself.
on the flip side the last bass i ordered online came with free boot prints courtesy of ups. (see pic)

 

[Dragonback13]

This thread is exactly the reason I love the business model of Kiesel (Carvin) over the years. Order online, build what you want and try it out for the test period.

 

[CharlieMac]

Whew!!
I was afraid you were going to blame eBay.

Here in Orlando there are several guitar stores. The big name stores suffer from their own staff hiring practices in wanting to have guitar gods as salespeople, (who do not really want to be there) or the store sales people look at you when you walk in thinking only of their commission. I am usually not comfortable in these stores.

Plus, for having two Guitar Centers and two Sam Ash stores and a handful of others in the area the choices of decent quality instruments are so limited. These stores apparently need to cater to the lowest price and quality ignorant consumer. Nicer instruments are just not available.

You have to shop where folks are selling the things you want to buy.

 

[obimark]

Music stores have traditionally been part of our social lives. We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.
Small music stores, even the very specialized and high end ones are all in danger!
Matt Uminov's store is closing it's doors after 50 years.
Why?
Because the instrument has stopped being a personalized thing. It is a commodity, to be delivered by the UPS man, after careful perusal of photographs on a website.
I can't even begin to tell you how wrong that is. Buying completely in the dark, and then adapting YOUR music to fit the instrument that FEDEX dropped off while you played video games.
People bitch and moan about how quality is slipping from the big manufactures. Maybe, but more of it is- in the 'old' days, each instrument was checked over, set up, and THEN put on the wall. Missing parts (gibson) and dry fingerboards (fender, and others) where caught, and corrected before any buyer ever even saw the guitar!
Beginners! Search Amazon/GC for hours without ever speaking to the bass player at the music store. Then they buy something entirely wrong for their interests, because it got good amazon reviews. What a dumb ass way to buy a first instrument! Then the kid gives up music from trying to play Metalica on his beetle bass, or bought a fretless cause they look really cool.
We have become complacent. We settle for whatever the big box music store sends us, and we're happy, because we don't know any better. And, we don't care.
I learned so much hanging out at music stores. A lot of the guys I met were touring pros, and were always willing to share. Later, I sold instruments, in stores that cared. We sat down, and demonstrated to the non players, and discussed their dreams and aspirations. We helped parents budget, and talked about lessons.
I will not even go into the number of threads on this site, and others, that start with- it arrived damaged, it arrived needing a set up, it was not as advertised. I'm sorry to point out who the sucker is here!
Matt Uminov's guitars is closing. So are most mom and pop music stores.
There is only ONE person to blame- the one who says 'the FEDEX truck is here, I can start my music career'. Did FEDEX remind you to buy a tuner?
Rant over.

The world changes.

But the one thing I don't get, why would ANY store think they can exist forever. Sears is about to go the way of the DoDo bird, but honestly, they had their day, and they SUCK now. They sell nothing but over-priced mattresses and appliances, and don't even try to capitalize on Nostalgia or Americana, which is the ONLY thing that would make them unique again. They have NOTHING to offer today. And put no effort into offering anything.
I am not even a marketing guru, but they could have tried to have a mini-Sears museum in each store, with unique stuff Sears used to sell, or maybe a really good diner. No, they didn't do JACK_***.

Blockbuster, KMart, same story. As for your music store, they didn't change with the times, and they didn't do anything UNIQUE enough to stay in business. (or maybe the owner just wants to retire).
You have to WORK to stay in business, not rest on your butt.
You can't offer better prices than the online stores? Maybe offer free music lessons with any guitar/bass purchase. Or a ticket to the zoo. Something.

Nope, all they offer is the same guitar or bass you can get online, for the same price. (or more.)
And what really kills me is when don't have something at a brick and mortar store and they say, "We can order it online." Well NO-**** Sherlock so can I if I wanted to!

 

[diegom]

We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.

No, no, not anymore...
"Shoot the poopie???" (I love the expression and I had to copy it to respond!!) Social networking has eliminated the need to interact, face-to-face, with people who share similar interests. I often bemoan the death of the RECORD STORE (Thank you Apple!! And while you were at it, you also killed the "album" by releasing individual songs!!!)

What we get now is a anonymously curated collection of items, as determined by newsgroups, boards and the like.

Music stores are suffering a similar fate as retail in general. Customer Service is an afterthought and people are driven by PRICE as the only factor determining value. Times have changed, we have changed. Time is money, so now we shoot the breeze on our own schedule: We post here and wait for someone to respond.
Retail is dying, Amazon is thriving. Music stores are no different...

Diego

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Music stores have traditionally been part of our social lives. We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.
Small music stores, even the very specialized and high end ones are all in danger!
Matt Uminov's store is closing it's doors after 50 years.
Why?
Because the instrument has stopped being a personalized thing. It is a commodity, to be delivered by the UPS man, after careful perusal of photographs on a website.
I can't even begin to tell you how wrong that is. Buying completely in the dark, and then adapting YOUR music to fit the instrument that FEDEX dropped off while you played video games.
People bitch and moan about how quality is slipping from the big manufactures. Maybe, but more of it is- in the 'old' days, each instrument was checked over, set up, and THEN put on the wall. Missing parts (gibson) and dry fingerboards (fender, and others) where caught, and corrected before any buyer ever even saw the guitar!
Beginners! Search Amazon/GC for hours without ever speaking to the bass player at the music store. Then they buy something entirely wrong for their interests, because it got good amazon reviews. What a dumb ass way to buy a first instrument! Then the kid gives up music from trying to play Metalica on his beetle bass, or bought a fretless cause they look really cool.
We have become complacent. We settle for whatever the big box music store sends us, and we're happy, because we don't know any better. And, we don't care.
I learned so much hanging out at music stores. A lot of the guys I met were touring pros, and were always willing to share. Later, I sold instruments, in stores that cared. We sat down, and demonstrated to the non players, and discussed their dreams and aspirations. We helped parents budget, and talked about lessons.
I will not even go into the number of threads on this site, and others, that start with- it arrived damaged, it arrived needing a set up, it was not as advertised. I'm sorry to point out who the sucker is here!
Matt Uminov's guitars is closing. So are most mom and pop music stores.
There is only ONE person to blame- the one who says 'the FEDEX truck is here, I can start my music career'. Did FEDEX remind you to buy a tuner?
Rant over.

Manny is a great guy, I hope his health is good and he decides to enjoy his retirement.

Heaven knows he earned it.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with a newbie neophyte so many years ago. Will try to stop on and pay my respects, and possibly find something.

 

[gln1955]

yes! every guitar store was manned by total jerks who seemed to only want to make you feel like you are a crap musician.

We must have grown up in the same city

Where I grew up back in the 60's-70's, if you weren't part of the pro clique, the music shop owners would look at you like an insect had just walked in the door. There was one Fender dealer in a city of about 150K, and they would inflate their prices as high as they possibly could. Buy what they had or drive a hundred miles to the next city. If you were a kid playing guitar and didn't take lessons through their store, you were also an insect.

Not missing any of that. I'm quite happy to have the Fedex truck bring me my basses.

 

[wintremute]

Speaking purely for myself I can safely say I can get much better deals on better quality gear than I ever could back in the day.

Yeah, those are my words, too.

People bitch and moan about how quality is slipping from the big manufactures.

I thought the consensus on here was that the quality of bass guitars is the highest its ever been, and that even the lowest cost Ibanez and Squier are a great value.