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Umanov guitars closing- rant!

I'm not advocating for the end of all physical stores. I just don't think small music shops have anything to offer that big music shops don't.

In my town, there's one that is also good for networking; they do know many people, so if I need a luthier I can trust, I can ask them. Of course, one could get that info elsewhere. Still, to me that's something that distinguishes a crappy store from a good shop where humans work who are enthusiastic about their field of work - and do like to do a good job rather than just getting your money. Just my personal preference.
 
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I'm not advocating for the end of all physical stores. I just don't think small music shops have anything to offer that big music shops don't.
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Your quotes go FAR beyond that, and you are wrong.

1. You advocate test driving equipment at a store and then buying on line to save a few bucks. You won't pay a few more dollars for the privilege of being able to shop in person.

2. One of the best shops I used to frequent was a small shop. Other than a few beginner instruments, about all it had was professional level stuff - stuff you wouldn't have at GC ever (Genz Benz, Pedulla). It had owners who were great, knowledgeable staff - the owners went to the national shows and spoke with the companies. Good big stores were not GC - they had that and more. The good stores in NYC - just about anything you see on Sweetwater's site was there in person to try out, not to mention tons of used stuff, at as good a price as you would find.

The world has changed - such is life. I don't see it as better.
 
Without having read the whole thread:

I'm pushing 43, been playing bass since I was 16/17. After plus/minus 25 years, I have a pretty good idea of what works for me and what doesn't. So between that and doing a little bit of research here and there, I actually can, for the most part, buy a bass online and generally be pretty happy with my choice.

Yes, there is always the possibility that the seller will understate (if not outright "forget" to mention) damage/issues (especially when buying used), not to mention the possibility of damage in transit, but I guess that's why buyer protection is in place?

And here is the biggest thing for me: with the plethora of quality USED instruments out there - all five of my current basses are used - I have an extremely hard time with the concept of ever buying a brand-new bass again. Amps and other electronics I'd probably lean more towards buying new, but basses? I dunno...

There are three local brick n' mortars in the small Canadian city I live in. It's rare that I walk into any of 'em and see (A) a decent selection of basses and (B) even ONE in their limited selections that really interests me.

(There is one local shop in particular that I like more than the others, and they do sometimes see business from me in the form of strings, setup work, etc., and when/if I look into getting a new amp and/or other electronics, chances are I'll see what they have in stock...)

If I DO ever decide to buy a brand new bass again, and if one of these stores is a dealer for that particular make, yeah, I'll talk to 'em, see what kind of price we can work out, and take it from there...but until then, I'm happy with my used axes.
 
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Music stores have traditionally been part of our social lives. We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.
Small music stores, even the very specialized and high end ones are all in danger!
Matt Uminov's store is closing it's doors after 50 years.
Why?
Because the instrument has stopped being a personalized thing. It is a commodity, to be delivered by the UPS man, after careful perusal of photographs on a website.

I don't think that is it. I was born in the 1950's, I am almost exactly the same age as the Precision Bass actually. The retail market was a lot different then, probably much as it had been for hundreds of years before. There were small specialty shops selling everything you could imagine on every street corner. There were department stores galore, large national chains and local family stores, which did a pretty fair job of selling almost everything. You could go into any of them and get solid advice from employees who knew and used the products they sold. You literally had to be quite accomplished at using a product to find a store employee who knew less about the product than you did. The retail world was a lot different back then but the thing that killed that world was the cost of employing those people who were so skilled at helping you choose and use a product. Skill does not come cheap, not then, not now. The prices people paid way back then seem so very cheap in today's dollars but in the dollars of the day they were very much more expensive than they are today.

Today price is king and the price of having low prices is that you now have to educate yourself about the products you buy and the options that are available and the differences those options will make to your way of using the product. Today no one can afford to hire people of the same caliber as you commonly found in stores back then. Back then working in sales in a department store was actually a reasonable middle class career choice. It is rare today to find people in stores who know more than you do about anything really. In most all cases when you do find such a person it is a red flag that you have not done enough homework to make an informed decision!

Another thing we had back then has come into play too. Some of us remember the Sears catalog. If you lived in a small town or a rural area going to a specialty or department store was a major undertaking. Certainly the highlight of your week and maybe your month or year. Catalog sales were your lifeline. It seems impossible to me now but I can actually remember getting mail order products delivered by railroad to the tiny freight station in the small Illinois farming town we lived in! If UPS existed back then it was a thing unknown to us. But the efficiency of mail order sales was an example that businesses applied in brick and mortar stores to satisfy the demand for lower prices. And of course the mail order business model found its ideal mate when the internet was invented!

But music stores seem to be an exception. They do come and go but there do always seem to be new ones popping up and in many cases they are able, somehow, to give you a very 1950's (and before) level of experience while offering prices competitive with the big box stores. Guitar Center is rather famous here for having modern know nothing sales employees yet even there it is not terribly unusual to find sales staff that are quite knowledgeable, who actually, you know, play in bands and such. I don't know how they do it exactly. The successful ones do seem to have "side" gigs that probably contribute a lot to the bottom line. They offer music lessons which are probably priced more like they would have been in the 50's. They sell/rent instruments to local school music programs. They do sound system consulting for local bands and businesses. They find ways to survive. It is always sad to see a favorite close but as a whole they have done remarkably well. I hope you can find a suitable replacement for the one you loved.

Another aspect of the issue is that yeah, it was nice to spend time in the local music store or hobby shop or whatever kind of store you remember from bygone years. It was a chance to interact with your peers, learn from the masters, and to help to encourage and teach beginners. It was a lot like TB in other words! Except that on TB you can interact not only with people from around town but around the world. People do not change much over the ages. We today have the same needs and desires people had thousands of years ago. Don't spend so much time lamenting the passing of the older ways of meeting those needs that you lose sight of the ways in which the newfangled methods meet those same needs, perhaps even better.
 
I think it's sad to see retail go, but I'm afraid there's no stopping it. Technology is moving so rapidly and we all need to remember that there's no going backwards - and that's never been more true than today. Think about Blockbuster; how the heck did they not see Netflix coming? Or how did Kodak miss the digital camera? Sure, some people are unhappy about not being able go to browse the store and pick up two movies on a Friday night, or how much better film looks than digital, but they are severely outnumbered by those who enjoy streaming and unlimited photos.

So what to do - I think it's important to embrace the new and keep what you can from the old. Forums and groups like this are amazing. If you think about it, the vast knowledge and experience found in these stores you speak of was limited to the number of people in the room at that particular moment in time. There are hundreds of thousands of musicians on this forum and Facebook groups and YouTube that I can tap into... I could ask one question and get responses from hundreds of bass players within minutes. That's far more than anyone I can talk to one-on-one. And I can read their responses on my own time.

Of course there's drawbacks and you have to take the bad with the good. But I try to avoid arguments of It was so much better back in the day or What is the world coming to? - That's not the voice of progress, and that kind of attitude (please be assured that I'm not accusing you of subscribing to this) is one that will surely get you left behind. I imagine that those from the previous generation who refused to adapt to computers are finding it hard to get work these days.

Just my thoughts, some say it's worth what you paid for it ;)
 
I think it's sad to see retail go, but I'm afraid there's no stopping it. Technology is moving so rapidly and we all need to remember that there's no going backwards - and that's never been more true than today. Think about Blockbuster; how the heck did they not see Netflix coming? Or how did Kodak miss the digital camera? Sure, some people are unhappy about not being able go to browse the store and pick up two movies on a Friday night, or how much better film looks than digital, but they are severely outnumbered by those who enjoy streaming and unlimited photos.

It's especially tragic that Kodak missed the impact of the digital camera *because they invented it*. What they missed was that the digital camera (and increasingly phones with digital cameras) would wipe out the cash cow of their global empire by taking away the demand for film, or more likely they didn't want to believe that the easy days were over. This is a very similar story to newspapers who assumed they could bankroll everything on classifieds until craigslist & friends killed that, or telcos who propped everything up on long distance call charges until skype and voip killed that. At least the telcos managed to come up with another cash cow (mobile plans)
 
There's also a place here called Tulsa Guitar & Electronics, which is a tiny place in midtown. That's where I took my Squier VM Jazz fretless to have the pickups and control plate swapped out. The guy who did it is fairly young (maybe early 20s) and did an amazing job. He said "Well, the new plate didn't quite line up with the existing screw holes, so I doweled them and drilled new holes for the new plate." Wow! He also did a full setup on the bass at no extra charge. They even let me plug in and play to make sure I was happy with the sound and setup. That's customer service at its finest.
 
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1. You advocate test driving equipment at a store and then buying on line to save a few bucks. You won't pay a few more dollars for the privilege of being able to shop in person.
I'll once again clarify that I'm not advocating for the end of physical stores. With that in mind, to what privilege are you referring? Is it a privilege to go to this guy's store and pay more for a Mexican Fender when I can go to the guitar center within walking distance and pay less? Or 1300 for a defretted musicmaster worth half? Driving is a privilege. Paying more to support an antiquated retail model destined for failure isn't a privilege.
 
I don't know. I don't need customer service. If I'm buying almost anything chances are I've researched the hell out of it. But maybe that's just me. All I need out of a store employee is to be there to either get me something not on the sales floor or ring me up. So I have no need for the personal touch of a mom and pop shop. And this may seem silly but parking sucks almost everywhere where I live and ma and pa at the neighborhood shop don't have acres of parking like guitar center.
Agreed 95%. It's certainly what I'd do. Research the living stuffing out of an instrument, agonize over it for several weeks before going into the store and plunking down my debit or credit card.

However, there does exist the odd music store where the owners are extremely knowledgeable and have unimpeachable credentials and reputation. I'm referring of course to the George Gruhns, the CMEs and the Norm Harrises of the world, where you'll find the used stuff, including the lawsuit stuff. I know if ever I get to L.A., Nashville or Chicago, I'd hit those places out not just for the museum experience, but all three examples do sell the newest stuff too.

Of course, here in Canada, the number of distributors who sell the big boys is rather limited, so everywhere basses and equipment has a tendency to be priced the same, regardless if it's a Long&McQuade, Steve's, Archambault, or Jimi's music in NDG where I got a few of my axes.
 
I'll once again clarify that I'm not advocating for the end of physical stores. With that in mind, to what privilege are you referring? Is it a privilege to go to this guy's store and pay more for a Mexican Fender when I can go to the guitar center within walking distance and pay less? Or 1300 for a defretted musicmaster worth half? Driving is a privilege. Paying more to support an antiquated retail model destined for failure isn't a privilege.

It would be nice if you actually read my posts (122, 117). I get tired of repeating myself.
 
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I have zero pity for the decline of mom & pop shops. For years (before the internet and before GC showed up in my town) I had to pay full MSRP on anything I needed to buy locally. I say needed because the only time I ever gave them my $ was when there was no choice. GC opened in my town and within 3 months, 2 of 3 local music stores went out of business.
 
It is sad indeed. I play around the corner from Umanov every Monday. I have been in there often for little things I need before a rehearsal or a gig.

That said, we have a little more than Fedex to blame here.

First and foremost, most people in this country don't quite fathom the cost of having ground level retail in NYC. It's expensive. Matt likely had a long terms lease that came up. And his tiny space in a prime rea of the West Village would easily fetch $30K per month. This is why that block, once replete with record shops, head shops, coffee shops, etc. is now lined with 16 Handles, Starbucks, Grom, etc. Those are the only folks that can afford the rent.

Second, I don't always hear such great things about Matt. Sure if you are Steve Earle he will take care of you, but there are plenty of stories where someone buys a vintage piece from him and just gets clobbered, or gets a ton of attitude when they come back to him years later to sell it through him. And that model might have worked inthe good old days, but once the internet came around, who needed Matt to sell your stuff and take 25%? And on the sell side he charges way too damn much for stuff. For example, he had a white Fretless 83 Jazz bass in the store. RW board, missing the bridge and PU covers. Ok condition. Asking price was $3250. I had a crispy clean 78 with OHSC that I bought for 1650 and sold for about the same a few years later. Not everyone feels the need to price shop, but not everyone is a price taker either, especially when there are viable and credible alternatives.

Lastly, and this is kind of a follow up to #2 above, the internet didn't just hurt local stores because of price. Selection is a part of it too. Matt's store would never have been big box and that is fine. His niche was older instruments. But I see way more appealing stuff on Reverb, GC Used, and ebay than I do it Matt's store any day of the week, especially, as a bass player. As a bass player, unless you want a worn 70s J or P bass that he is asking way too much for, there is next to nothing for you there. How many people are walking the NYC streets in the market for that? And why would people from elsewhere make his store a destination to make a purchase, with no guarantee they can find what they want, when they can do it form their living rooms? And if you think about it, these other places to shop haven't really taken anything away from Matt. They have just blown a used musical instrument market wide open that didn't exist before. So now instead of just the "my son didn't stick with music lessons so his starter guitar is for sale" price point and the "hey instead of a car buy a 67 so and so because Matt says it will only go up in value" price points available for used and vintage shoppers, literally everything that once was is available again.

Like I said, it is sad and I would much rather have Umanov on Bleeker than I would a Panera Bread Travesty, but there are a lot of forces at work here. We can't just blame GC and MF and Sweetwater.
 
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It's been stated both in this thread and in the article I mentioned above that he owns the building. So while he may be struggling with taxes, maintenance or mortgage costs, it has nothing to do with a lease.

Except if your store is sitting in a space that could be rented for $LOTS, eventually you're going to start thinking about the opportunity cost of keeping it there.

B>
 
Number of times I've been misled into buying something I don't need/somehow inappropriate because I trusted a salesperson:

By a mom and pop store: 7 times (yes I counted) and obviously no refunds.
By a big chain store : 1ish (because the refund policy existed)
Shopping online: 0


Even if you take away the better price and convenience of shopping online, salespeople in small stores are rarely knowledgeable about anything other than the very few items they are currently selling. They are strongly motivated by their profit margin therefore might steer you towards an item that is going to give them more money in the end.

I understand that not all small stores are like this, but on the whole I am not dissapointed in the least to see these clowns go. Looking at you, Jack's Music!
 
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Interesting and varied responses. Thank you.
Internet sales are here to stay, that's for sure, this was just an opinion piece.
I know N. America is a big place, and everybody does not have access to great stores. A fact of life, and for them, mail order is a blessing. Same for lefties. The last store I worked in had close to 2000 guitars on the walls. A great bass dept. we stocked three lefty basses, at $200, $700, and $2K.
I glad I live near enough to some truly great stores. Not many brands I could not get, great staff, and great service departments.
Yes, I will gladly road trip 200 miles to play an instrument I am considering. When I order my next Alembic, I will fly there.
Cheers y'all!