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Unlined or Lined: Irrelevant?
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
Reminds me of the ernie ball musicman nuts (not all strings stopped at same point... which actually really bugs me since it's targetted at certain keys), and the nut that Steve Vai uses... and I think he also has used guitars with the crazy frets that aren't even across.
I actually went somewhat mad with the science behind the different tuning standards in history back in music school... like I got obsessed a bit.... as an engineer as well I really wanted to find formulas to solve all of the "problems" with tuning where intervals aren't perfectly in tune using the pure tuned notes... like how the piano low notes SteveCS pointed out sound very very subtly flat on their own but perfect when played with one higher octave....
Damn it man... STEVE why did you get me started. LoL
I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. This stuff drove me nuts, and I'd happily forgotten it all, swept it away in my memory, and now it's all rushing back. My study of native american music and the notes/tunings used, my study of renaissance and baroque music, different installations of pipe organs in history and the tuning systems used (Well tempered in some stops but not in others... like your keyboardist's other patches).... and A being 440 versus lower in history....
Notation and tuning standards are all invented by humans, and as always mathematicians try to solve it and explain what works and what doesn't, and I do it the same way...
and
and
oh man I need a drink
I actually went somewhat mad with the science behind the different tuning standards in history back in music school... like I got obsessed a bit.... as an engineer as well I really wanted to find formulas to solve all of the "problems" with tuning where intervals aren't perfectly in tune using the pure tuned notes... like how the piano low notes SteveCS pointed out sound very very subtly flat on their own but perfect when played with one higher octave....
Damn it man... STEVE why did you get me started. LoL
I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. This stuff drove me nuts, and I'd happily forgotten it all, swept it away in my memory, and now it's all rushing back. My study of native american music and the notes/tunings used, my study of renaissance and baroque music, different installations of pipe organs in history and the tuning systems used (Well tempered in some stops but not in others... like your keyboardist's other patches).... and A being 440 versus lower in history....
Notation and tuning standards are all invented by humans, and as always mathematicians try to solve it and explain what works and what doesn't, and I do it the same way...
and
and
oh man I need a drink
You're welcome
. Incidentally, I meant to mention before, even the most mediocre lunch becomes palatable when in good company...
Bad timing because of the Corona virus, but if your local schools have faculty bass recitals, they are worth checking out to see just how well they can in tune. In Houston, we are blessed with Paul Ellison, Timothy Pitts, Dennis Whittaker and many other amazing players.
In my house I am blessed by my daughter, so even if we get a lockdown there will at least be good music going on...
No. You know that if you played a C major scale from the 15th fret of the A string it's going to be more out of tune if you don't have lines. You know nothing of me or my abilities, and have no reason to question them, other than to be difficult. In fact, for all you know, I am one of the "top players" you keep referring to, who you think are only as good as they are because they have lines on their fingerboard. I'm not, but until I typed that here, you had no way to know otherwise.
Again, because that is their preference. And because "top players" is subject to your interpretation, and you clearly like players that play basses with lines for some reason.
No one has effortless, perfect intonation. It takes effort, lots of it. And it's still not perfect, none of us said it was. I only said that lines or no lines have nothing to do with my intonation, or lack thereof.
Your opinion is formed by confirmation bias because some players who you've decided qualify as "top players" like to play fretless basses with lines on the fingerboard. Then you've decided to extrapolate that as some kind of an unbreakable law that only people with lines can play in tune.
When I played only fretless, my fretlines got me to the street address but my ears and polish got me to the front door.
LoL I like that.... its not entirely how I personally used fret lines, but I really like that saying
You have read between the lines!That's as good a way of putting it as I can see. The lines are reference points, not a foolproof strategy for intonation. Cripes. Think about the thickness of the lines and the thickness of your fingers. That affects intonation. The lines might get you close, but it's up to your ears.
I would think the vast majority of fretless basses are factory fretlesses.
How do you know there's an unlined fretless at the door?
By the sound of the woodpecker building a home above the 12th fret.
Change my mind, the burden of proof is on you. Got anything you can link me to? Anything intonated in the upper range you've played? It would be nice to hear it.
By the sound of the woodpecker building a home above the 12th fret.
Change my mind, the burden of proof is on you. Got anything you can link me to? Anything intonated in the upper range you've played? It would be nice to hear it.
This discussion is getting out of hand and becoming much too analytical. Some people play reasonably in tune on a lined board others on an unlined. It's a matter of personal preference and one is not better than the other. That's all.
No need to come with the same arguments again. There have been too many topics on this already I think.
No need to come with the same arguments again. There have been too many topics on this already I think.
How is this discussion getting out of hand? And what is "too analytical"? People claim to have superb intonation on an unlined in that register, it would be nice to hear it. The guys that I've worked in the past with who knew Pino in his formative years always described him as a gentleman. A study in humility.
He didn't feel he had anything to prove.
He didn't feel the need to woof off...
Illusory superiority - Wikipedia
It's getting boring and people come up with the same arguments that have been said over and over in numerous other lined vs unlined topics.And apparently one can not convince the other.
Just practice intonation on your fretless a lot. Lined or unlined.
Sure.
Of two or three of the same brands that everyone else plays.
Nothing wrong with those.
But what if you don't want those?
What if you wantcertain six which is not available as fretless?
Then you defret.
Defretted six with styrene inlays.
2010
And then,years later you have the fingerboard replaced with an unlined one.
2017
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Yes I got an unlined fretless guitar, a lined bass, two uprights and a sitar that I play on a daily bases.
