• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass unscientfic

Marc Piane

Marc Piane

Jun 14, 2004
4,901
153
51
Chicago
www.marcpiane.com
#1
OK. So in celebrating all the focused work I did on my taxes over the past few days I decided to goof around today.

So...

...I recorded sound samples of the various amplification devices I take to gigs and set up a silly website showcasing them.

This was really more for my edification but I figured I'd share.

The playing is rough so please don't critique.
Link Removed

I stood off axis from the mic behind a baffle so there should be minimum acoustic bleed.


As we know there are SO many variables at play here. What works in my basement on the 3rd of April 2009 might not at my gig later today.

Enjoy
 
#4
Marc,

thanks so much for doing the work and documenting.

The latter two were my faves for the amped sound; the AI with GK extension had a little more of the attack ( and maybe a midscoop? ) to my ears.

The AI with EA cabinet was smoother and still had plenty of attack.

the difference were kind of subtle though, and I wonder if it's because the Sansamp is dominating the sound here.

. . . or maybe it's because I'm listening through crappy computer speakers.

I like Chris' comment though, about the acoustic one being his fav.

Ten years ago when I could bench 300lbs I used to intimidate drummers into playing more quietly. haha.

maybe i should start lifting again . . .

edit: for selfish reasons I didn't even listen to the GK with the extension cab until I read Chris' 2nd post. Selfish being I don't bench anymore and wouldn't consider carrying an extension cab! that one does sound nice, and more natural in the mids than the AI + EA cab to my ears. Surprisingly better than the GK combo alone.
 
#6
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I like the "Acoustic" one best.
Click to expand...


Ah, yes. Maybe I need to get to the point where I can bench 300lbs and scare some restraint into some drummers.

Truth be told though I don't mind if a drummer is loud as long as what they are playing is hip.

A note on eq. I didn't mess with eq settings at all. I wanted as 'neutral' of a sound (cause each one has its character) as possible. There is some shaping that I would do to all the amplified sounds. I didn't 'cause these are all situation dependent and are often compromises between what sounds good solo and what sounds good in the ensemble.

As far as my favorite... it depends. Right now I am digging the AI/MBX. It has a more headroom than the combo. I also really like the GK and Ext. I feel like it sounds similar no matter what room I am in. It also has a very small footprint and stacked up the combo is closer to your ear so it is easier to hear. I can also still 'one trip' the combo and the ext since I have my bass on a wheel, shoulder bag for the combo, and the ext cab is light.

Because of the schlep factor the EA stays at home most of the time. After this test though it does have its merits and will make some more appearances I think.

Lastly, in many situations, your sound is a mixture of the acoustic sound of your bass and your amplified sound. I purposely shielded myself from the mic so I could get only amp but most of my gigs are not at such a loud volume that the acoustic sound is totally out of the mix.

Thanks for listening and keep those thoughts coming.
 
#8
fingers said:
Ah, yes. Maybe I need to get to the point where I can bench 300lbs and scare some restraint into some drummers.
Click to expand...

You know, one of the loudest drummers I heard was Jeff Tain Watts -- hip and loud! -- but Eric Revis could be heard through the mele, coming only through the house PA system.

None the less, you produce a nice acoustic sound, and that is fundamentally the place to start. All the samples sound like you, so bravo for that.
 
#9
Marc...I kind of agree with you. I'm digging the AI/MBX tone. It sounds a little more rounded to my ears than the others. How it would fit in a mix is another story. For that, perhaps the GK/MBX would cut better. Very cool idea though. Wish I had a Mac. I'm not sure how to do this on a PC.
 
#10
How it sits in the mix....Aye, there's the rub. :hmm: I was kind of surprised when I recorded the soundfiles comparing different combinations of mic & pickup with and without EQ for the first issue of BG magazine Invalid Link Removed. The combination and EQ that I actually use all the time on gigs and which sounds great in the mix sounds a little harsh and middy on those clips when that's the only sound going. It's pretty difficult to tell how an amplified sound is going to work on the gig without taking it to the gig(s).
 
#11
adbass said:
You know, one of the loudest drummers I heard was Jeff Tain Watts -- hip and loud! -- but Eric Revis could be heard through the mele, coming only through the house PA system.
Click to expand...

Right now Branford's group is #1 on my list. I've been listening to the new record since it came out a week and a half ago. Eric has maybe become the biggest influence on my playing right now. That's why, for my bigger gigs, I really try to have my amp be nothing more than a stage monitor and send a mic signal to the PA for general consumption.

Chris Fitzgerald said:
How it sits in the mix....Aye, there's the rub. :hmm: The combination and EQ that I actually use all the time on gigs and which sounds great in the mix sounds a little harsh and middy on those clips when that's the only sound going. It's pretty difficult to tell how an amplified sound is going to work on the gig without taking it to the gig(s).
Click to expand...

+1. It also depends on the room and your location in it, the crowd noise, etc. What prevailing frequencies are you competing with? A shaker, crowd chatter, a blender, etc. What is the tone of the drummer's bass drum? Also, every room has a frequency. The acoustics of that room will bring out some things and mask others. Certain sounds will be great and one room, thin and brittle in the next, and boomy in a third.

Lastly it depends on where you want to sit in the mix. I want to punch people in the gut with my sound. I play on the lower end most of the time cause to me those notes have more "pulse power". The thing that the recordings don't really show about the Realist is it really transmits that low-mid pulse.
 
#12
I like your acoustic sound.
That said, I liked the Fishman into the GK best (no ex. cab). The ex. cab was ok, but....
The last 2 sounded not so good to me.

Because they're not going to work in a mix.
 
#15
fingers said:
+1. It also depends on the room and your location in it, the crowd noise, etc. What prevailing frequencies are you competing with? A shaker, crowd chatter, a blender, etc. What is the tone of the drummer's bass drum? Also, every room has a frequency. The acoustics of that room will bring out some things and mask others. Certain sounds will be great and one room, thin and brittle in the next, and boomy in a third.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But there's a basic sound in each rig, and a basic range of EQ options to help compensate for the the differences in environment, with the HP filter being the most important (IMO). There's also where you set the amp in relation to floors and walls that can come into play.

Lastly it depends on where you want to sit in the mix. want to punch people in the gut with my sound. I play on the lower end most of the time cause to me those notes have more "pulse power". The thing that the recordings don't really show about the Realist is it really transmits that low-mid pulse.
Click to expand...

True. OTOH, a good amplified sound should be just an extension of your regular sound, and should be as devoid of unnatural electronic humps and artifacts as possible so you can control the amplified sound with as much finesse and range as the amplified sound. But yeah, I know what you're saying. For me, it's about hearing intonation, which I think of as a part of time keeping in the big picture. The low mids can sometimes mask intonation to my ears, so I'm very careful with them.
 
#16
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Agreed. But there's a basic sound in each rig, and a basic range of EQ options to help compensate for the the differences in environment, with the HP filter being the most important (IMO). There's also where you set the amp in relation to floors and walls that can come into play.
Click to expand...

Which is why I did very little eq in my unscientific test. My only real caveat about the AI stuff, and I know it has been bitched about at length here, is the eq is pretty lame. The Sansamp has a pretty powerful eq but the controls are 'Treble', 'Bass' and 'Presence'. No dedicated mid however the other controls change the contour of the mids and the 'Blend' knob also has a significant impact. Just not your usual eq. Truthfully I am not crazy about mids in my amplified sound. While higher mids can help with hearing intonation they can also contribute to the 'honkyness'.


Fitzie C said:
True. OTOH, a good amplified sound should be just an extension of your regular sound, and should be as devoid of unnatural electronic humps and artifacts as possible so you can control the amplified sound with as much finesse and range as the amplified sound.
Click to expand...

Ah, and therein lies the rub. Without the presence of a mic we are doing everything unnatural and electronic to the sound and trying to then mask THAT. Even with a mic if we are plugging into an amp we still dealing with a device with a contoured response. Compound that with the fact that there might be an electronic piano, amplified and effected guitar, etc on the hit. That's why I say (and you too) that sometimes we need to make compromises in our amplified tone to make the bass speak in the mix and be able to hear ourselves.
 
#20
I thought they all sounded good. Usually when I'm experimenting with different set ups, there is a huge difference between different sets of equipment. All of the way from some that would be ennobled by the word "poopy" to sounding really good. While there were definitely differences in the sounds, none were unusable in my opinion. Which one you pick really comes down to which one better reflects what you hear in your head. Nice work.

mark
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back