Updating my rig: Need suggestions

[BassMike14]

This is going to be my first and a probably too long post. The gist of the situation is that my faithful SWR rig has just become too heavy for me in my old age. I need lighter speakers. What should I look at?

I bought an SWR SM400 and two goliath 4X10 cabinets back about 1988. I ultimately traded one of the 4X10's for a Big Ben 18" and added a SM 900. I play a five string and really like getting down to the low D and occasionally the low C. I was playing in an R&B band and a classic Chicago-style blues band by the early 2000's. Then kids and their sports stepped in and I really didn't play much at all for about 20 years. Got back to it the last couple of years and as Covid restrictions have eased up, have been playing out. I now have a classic rock band playing 50's, 60's and 70's and a jam band playing Allman Brothers and Dead style music. I still really like the sound of my SWR but those speakers must weigh in at sixty or seventy pounds. I'm just waiting to blow a lumbar disk lifting them in and out of my truck.

What I am looking for are lighter weight speakers that will still give me a rich, mellow tone. I don't slap but I do want the tone to be clear and articulated, particularly in the low registers. I have come to realize that my 18" speaker, while moving a lot of air, does not really articulate the low notes all that well. There are some Phil Lesh runs that really need to come up from a solid, very low pitch so I need speakers that will handle the low notes as well as the middle ranges.

It is very difficult to find a shop that actually has high end speakers to demo. I spoke at length with the guys at the Bass Shop in Seattle. They suggested a look at a Aguilar 4X10 and maybe stack it on an Aguilar single 15. Anyone ever used that arrangement? Anyway, I am not sure where to go with this. It is going to be a significant financial investment so I would like to get it right the first time. I am totally open to suggestions.
Regards,

Michael

 

[pingvuiini]

I am enjoying my Link Removed Aerotech 212 Slim cabinet and Quilter Bass Block 800. Combined weight is 31.7 lbs. The cabinet is very expensive and I see the price has actually gone up to $1499. The Quilter is actually not too bad at $700 brand new. I can hand carry everything in one trip as long as its not too far. GR Bass has wood versions of their speakers that are much cheaper and a bit heavier but still much lighter than the stuff from the 80s and 90s.

Also, check out the stuff from Mesa Engineering. For home I have a TT-800 (7lbs) and two 1x15 cabinets which weigh 37.9lbs each. But there are several heads and cabinets to choose from that all work together very well and sound great.

 

[shoot-r]

Years back I pretty much was on the same course you are now.
I used multiple, heavy, bulky, cabinets loaded with 10" drivers and wanted to go lighter, smaller, easier to transport, but retain most of the slam/clarty/tone I was getting with my old rig.

Tried several different combinations of cabs out on gigs.
What ended up working for my ears and back, "two", 210 Neo driver loaded cabinets stacked as a vertical 410.

Gets the top driver up near ear level for the feel of the slam and clarity, plus the vertical driver arrangement aids in better projection, mids dispersion and less phase issues than a standard square cab configured 410.

Most modern 210 cabinets will also out perform 210 cabs (and some 410 cabs) from a few years back.

Plus, you can use one 210 for rehearsals/small gigs/moderate volume jobs with FOH support, both cabs when more volume, coverage is needed.

Using Neo drivers in the cabs has cut weight dramatically.
The smaller physical size of the 210 cab makes for a manageable carry.

I've also went to working with the light weight class D bass heads.
Main gigging amp, Mesa Subway 800+, 6.3 lbs., back-up head G.K. MB2-500, 3.5 lbs.

I still don't like carry-outs but don't dread it like I used to!

 

[Low Class]

I use a SM400 with Barefaced 12" cabs(less than 30lbs).
Barefaced Bass - Ultra lightweight high power bass guitar speaker cabinets

Official Barefaced Bass Cab Club | TalkBass.com

 

[Jaco who?]

The new GK Neo 212. Sweetwater has the 8Ω version in stock, and they're $899. Seems like the most bang for the buck right now. They're taller and less deep than the Mesa subways, really light and easy to carry. Get one before the price goes through the roof.

 

[wazzel]

There are lots of good sounding, powerful and light bass rigs out there. I had been using a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0-12T for the past 12 or so years. I actually still use it ay my church gig. Just got a Bergintino Forte HP and the NXT 112 cabinet. The Mesa TT-800 and subway 1-12 cab was my other choice.

 

[Element Zero]

Mesa Subway head (take your pick) and Subway 215 or 410 cab. You’ll be set for life.

 

[msb]

I went Bergantino when I decided to look for something lighter , and never sounded better .

 

[jeff7bass]

Revsound cabs + Demeter head.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

This is going to be my first and a probably too long post. The gist of the situation is that my faithful SWR rig has just become too heavy for me in my old age. I need lighter speakers. What should I look at?

I bought an SWR SM400 and two goliath 4X10 cabinets back about 1988. I ultimately traded one of the 4X10's for a Big Ben 18" and added a SM 900. I play a five string and really like getting down to the low D and occasionally the low C. I was playing in an R&B band and a classic Chicago-style blues band by the early 2000's. Then kids and their sports stepped in and I really didn't play much at all for about 20 years. Got back to it the last couple of years and as Covid restrictions have eased up, have been playing out. I now have a classic rock band playing 50's, 60's and 70's and a jam band playing Allman Brothers and Dead style music. I still really like the sound of my SWR but those speakers must weigh in at sixty or seventy pounds. I'm just waiting to blow a lumbar disk lifting them in and out of my truck.

What I am looking for are lighter weight speakers that will still give me a rich, mellow tone. I don't slap but I do want the tone to be clear and articulated, particularly in the low registers. I have come to realize that my 18" speaker, while moving a lot of air, does not really articulate the low notes all that well. There are some Phil Lesh runs that really need to come up from a solid, very low pitch so I need speakers that will handle the low notes as well as the middle ranges.

It is very difficult to find a shop that actually has high end speakers to demo. I spoke at length with the guys at the Bass Shop in Seattle. They suggested a look at a Aguilar 4X10 and maybe stack it on an Aguilar single 15. Anyone ever used that arrangement? Anyway, I am not sure where to go with this. It is going to be a significant financial investment so I would like to get it right the first time. I am totally open to suggestions.
Regards,

Michael

BTW. Welcome to the board. I wouldn’t worry about the length of your post.

If I were in the market for a cab (s), I’d be looking at Mesa, as well as smaller multiple cabs as opposed to one big one. Like (2) 1-12s. I’m pushing 69 here in a few months. I currently have (2) 210 and find it much easier to transport than a 410 cab, plus, a lot of gigs you only need one. And one that can handle 500 watts is is enough for most gigs. jMO

 

[lucas303]

I think @edwinhurwitz uses a Bag End cab and having heard him live I can assure you he nails the 70s Phil Lesh tone. I'm not sure how much those cabs weigh, though.

 

[erhovey]

This is going to be my first and a probably too long post. The gist of the situation is that my faithful SWR rig has just become too heavy for me in my old age. I need lighter speakers. What should I look at?

Fortunately, you've got lots of good options from various manufacturers nowadays. Myself, a few years back I decided to think about the the ability to scale my rig to various situations. I now own a 4x10 cabinet, three 2x10 cabinets, and two amp heads. All of the cabinets are light neo cabinets except for one of the 2x10's. Depending on the situation I might run as little as one 2x10 all the way up to using the 4x10 and two 2x10's (using both of the amp heads together). It's been great.

 

[SunByrne]

Just for some points of reference, consider modern 212 cabs, which can be both loud and articulate, kind of splitting the difference between a 210 and a 115. Here are the weights from some of the brands that generally have good standing on TB:

GRBass, 28 lbs.
RevSound, 35 lbs.
Barefaced, 37 or 40 lbs. (depending on grille)
GK Neo IV, 43 lbs.
Aguilar SL, 45 lbs.
Bergantino, 49 lbs.
Mesa/Boogie, 52 lbs.

Even 52 lbs. for a 212 is light by 1988 standards—but 28 is pretty mind-blowing, coming in at just over half the weight of the Mesa.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say all of these are capable of reproducing your low D and C with better articulation than your current rig. But, they will sound different from each other and of course have different power-handling characteristics and different price points. I'm not sure which is the most "rich and mellow" so I'm not in a position to recommend one based on sound.

And of course if you want to stick with a 410 plus a 115, you could certainly check weights there—you'll again see some pretty big variation, but they'll probably all still be lighter than your current rig.

 

[jthisdell]

You will likely be amazed at the newer higher end cabs. Much has changes in last 20 years, all for the better. Auditioning cabs can be hard and usually involves travel as good bass shops are few and far between. I ended up with a pair of Bergantino cabs but there many quality brands, Barefaced, Mesa, Berg, Aggie. The Bass Shop in Seattle is listed as a Berg dealer, surprised they would want to sell you a 115/410 stack. When combining cabs with different drivers it is important to find two that work well together, have similar power handling and sensitivity ratings. Assuming they were talking about the SL line the SL410 handles 800 watts and the 115 400. They do have similar sensitivity. But that is a huge difference in power handling so if you really crank it you the 410 will be blaring so loud you will not hear the 115 fail. If you put 500-700 watts through the 410 I seriously doubt you would need a second cab unless you want to damage your hearing. If you search you will find a million posts on why the 410 115 stack is not the best idea. More marketing hype then engineering. Larger speakers do not necessarily produce better lows these days.

A lot of players like a couple of cabs that give them a variety of options for different types of gigs. I have a Berg CN112 and a CN210, can use either separately or together for three different options, 28 and 33 pounds. (These are a few years old, Jim Bergantino has released several new and improved lines since I bought these.) I play a good bit of Dead and pair these with a TH500. Likewise, I don't slap but find a quality, smooth horn helps overall clarity. I also have a Barefaced One10 for easy portability for small jams, Church gigs, etc.

Another good option is to get two of the same cab, 2 quality 210's is common, 2 212's is a lot of rig for most players. Easier to carry 2 210's than one 410. Also convenient if you can leave one at the practice space as I do.

 

[noahw1]

Check out Genzler, Mesa, Berg, Bareface and if not these there are a ton of others, some already mentioned.

 

[micguy]

My suggestion is to get a 2 ohm capable head, and a stack of (up to 4) 112's - you can bring them into a venue one at a time, so no load is too heavy, but you have gobs of output capability if and when you need it. For smaller gigs, bring 1 or 2 cabinets.

 

[ELG60]

I agree with many of the previous posters. For class d's, I prefer to bring Mesa Subway products to gigs, although I like my GK mb800 fusion too. Bergantino gets high marks for similarly priced units.

I usually use Barefaced cabinets, but appreciate my Mesa, berg, and Epifani cabs as well.

 

[arbiterusa]

I still really like the sound of my SWR but those speakers must weigh in at sixty or seventy pounds.

Weight on a Goliath series 4x10 is 95 pounds. I'd have never gotten rid of mine if they were 60.

The Big Ben is 73.

Took me five years but I managed to get a pair of the Golight 410s, 56 pounds each, SWR (Fender) product with the right SWR sound. But they are hard to find and usually quite pricey. I don't have a good direct replacement suggestion for the cabs as I hated pretty much everything I tried.

What ended up being a great replacement for my SM400 was the GK MB500. Same ballpark tone, and at 4.5 pounds, well, that's the right weight.

 

[Amajew]

There is no one choice here, unfortunately. I'm sure I am one of many on this forum who have chased tone and spent a lot of money doing so.

Seeming you are coming from 2 - 410's I'm assuming you want some big sound??

All the amp manufacturers, Aguilar, Bergantino, GR, Mesa, Darkglass, GK etc will have their own voice.

Now pair it with 1, 2 or 3 12's, 15's etc by Aguilar, Bergantino, Barefaced, GR, Mesa, Darkglass, GK etc will give you similar but different results.

It really can become a rabbit hole.

Luckily a lot of this gear can be found here used and if you choose not to keep it, you can unload it for pretty much what you paid for it... and can come out even better if you can do local deals.

Adding an LPF and HPF into your signal chain will tighten everything up as well. Also a compressor can keep those pesky spikes in your signal nice and even.

I suggest reading lots of posts on here and give some gear that YOU feel will fit best for your situation and volume needs as some people just need a 112, and some need 412's and more!!

 

[Obese Chess]

I am still shopping for a head right now but I A/B'd about a half dozen cabinets - Aguilar, Genzler, Darkglass, Hartke, and GK - at The Bass Shop in Seattle [EDIT: I missed the part of your post where that's who you had been consulting with! Ha!] a few years back and the Bergantino offerings, the 2x12s specifically sounded best to my ears. Highly recommend them - I think the HDN212 was around forty pounds, and my Hartke 4x10 at the time was, uh... 137. So.