I have an Englehart EM-1 Bass that I am considering making some changes on and I would like to know if since this is a cheap laminate Bass would I be wasting my time and money. I am thinking of changing the tailpiece to an ebony one and also changing the stock tailpiece wire to a steel cable. My hope is to improve the resonance of the Bass. Another thing I'm curious about, for any Bass Luthiers who might read this, is thoughts about violin varnish versus nitro cellulose lacquer as a Bass finish.
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Double Bass Upgrade question
- Thread starter Bluegrass89
- Start date
I'm not a luthier but I do work on my own instrument. I recently picked up an EC1 cheap and started upgrading it. I would encourage anyone with more skill than gold to do so. I replaced the tailpiece with a lightweight maple one, replaced the hard wire with industrial stainless 3/32" cable, carved a new "mid-grade" bridge, turned down a "natural" hickory end pin, and started turning ebony tuner spindles. Each step of the way I was amazed by the improvements in the tone and playability. As a bonus my bass and I have a more intimate relationship and greater respect for each other. 
Thanks for the reply Bssist? I'm also thinking of replacing the nut with an ebony nut. The one that's on there now has a couple of strings to close to the fingerboard and I'd like to have them all at the same clearance. Probably going to replace the bridge as well after I refinish the bass. I hate the stock finish and want something more resonant friendly. I feel like any new finish would be better than the thick plastic looking stuff on there now.
Good luck with it. I have not stripped my db but I have stripped a couple of my bg. It created a great change in tone. I'm sure it would have an effect on the sound but being a fully laminated instrument I don't know how big. Please post your results once you get it done. I'd really like to know.
I have 2 ebony nut blanks, I just haven't gotten to it yet. I have some purpleheart I'm going to turn down for an endpin, and I intend to try osage orange as well. So far I have tried a couple different steel, oak, and a handfull of hickory (drumsticks). The uncoated hickory was by far the best sounding of all so far. I have read that others had better results with oak. I think it is a matter of each component adding up in different ways. They say that each bass is individual; so what works on one EM-1 may not be so great on another.
Please be sure to post the results (positive AND negative) of all your changes. It really helps the rest of us to learn and understand the instrument better.
Steve
I have 2 ebony nut blanks, I just haven't gotten to it yet. I have some purpleheart I'm going to turn down for an endpin, and I intend to try osage orange as well. So far I have tried a couple different steel, oak, and a handfull of hickory (drumsticks). The uncoated hickory was by far the best sounding of all so far. I have read that others had better results with oak. I think it is a matter of each component adding up in different ways. They say that each bass is individual; so what works on one EM-1 may not be so great on another.
Please be sure to post the results (positive AND negative) of all your changes. It really helps the rest of us to learn and understand the instrument better.
Steve
"I have some purpleheart I'm going to turn down for an endpin"
Please post a pic when you get that done!
Please post a pic when you get that done!
Based on many stories related here, it seems that you would be wasting neither time nor money. Many have made just the changes you describe and they seem to make noticeable improvements. Luthiers often make those changes as well when refurbishing/setting up old Kays. As for re-finishing, if that's what you're considering, I'll leave that to others.
Definitely replace the tailgut. If you have the skill and the bass is the stock Engel bridge, replace that too. You can build up the nut slots with Krazy Glue if they're not too low.
I haven't stripped and refinished a bass, but from what I understand you can use Citristrip or a similar product to remove the lacquer. Don't quote me on that.
I haven't stripped and refinished a bass, but from what I understand you can use Citristrip or a similar product to remove the lacquer. Don't quote me on that.
Concerning the finish, what kind of music are you playing? From the examples I've seen with other carved instruments I don't think the lacquer will change much of the tone pizzacato. The more pronounced effect would be noticed playing with the bow. As far as the EM-1, I would say leave it alone, though if you want to do it, by all means go for it and let us know how it turns out!
Concerning the finish, what kind of music are you playing? From the examples I've seen with other carved instruments I don't think the lacquer will change much of the tone pizzacato. The more pronounced effect would be noticed playing with the bow. As far as the EM-1, I would say leave it alone, though if you want to do it, by all means go for it and let us know how it turns out!
I'd really be interested to hear what kind of a difference it makes on a laminated instrument.
Will do, but I don't really see any visual value it it, its all about tone. Maybe I'll plug in record some tracks comparing each different endpin.
The replacement of the nut, bridge ( not original ), tailpiece and wire are all to hopefully improve tone quality and hopefully volume. The refinish is strictly due to flaws in the finish and the fact that I hate the color of the Bass. I don't have any experience with laminate instruments as all my experience has been with Mandolins and they have all been carved instruments. My hunch is that with the Bass being laminated that it won't make any difference other than in the appearance which type of finish I use. Since I have no experience with varnish I'm leaning towards the lacquer but will consider any advice by those with experience greater than mine. If I could afford a nice carved Bass I would be a happy man but must settle for tweaking the best sound possible from the one I have. To answer a previous question I predominately play Pizz. I presently have an adjustable bridge but am leaning towards a fixed bridge. I don't think I have changed string height but once since putting the adjustable bridge on and I think that they may not be as good as a fixed bridge at transferring vibrations to the face of the Bass. I would love to hear any thoughts about that. I can't really start this work until August due to some gigs I have to play. I will definitely post results once obtained, either good or bad.
I know people who have stripped the thick candy coating off of Engelhardt and laminate Strunal basses who reported positive results.
Can you point me toward the posts, or give descriptions of the improvements. I really dig the sound I'm getting with the reversible changes I've made. I'd hate to make an unreversible change to find that it removed the qualities I like in the current tone. I almost never use a bow as I play mostly jazz, pop, and classic american and county styles on db.
I can't remember many of the specifics but I did a lot of research before ordering my adjusters (which I have not yet installed). There is a lot of information out there including recordings of different adjuster material. eg: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
You can order your blank and start shaping it before you are ready to make the change. I think I had mine a week before I made the first cut and another week or two before it was on the bass. It sounds much better than the one that was on when I got the bass but I consider it to be only half way finished. Since it sounds so much better than the old one I just haven't wanted to take time out from being in "gig-ready mode".
Not on my phone I can't. Can you wait till I'm home next week? In the meantime you could find Mike Childree's profile (mchildree) and look up his posts.
Adjusters make a tiny difference to the tone, and it's usually positive rather than negative. But the really surprising thing is how much difference even a quarter turn makes to the distribution of tension around the bass, and therefore to the sound. Adjusters make it so much easier to hit the sweet spot, and that totally outweighs anything they do to the tone (I couldn't detect any real change in tone when they went on my bass, which is a carved Wilfer and good enough that if it was anything major, it would have been obvious).
As for replacing wire tailguts with stainless cable and the rest of the things you're planning on... go for it. Just the tailgut will get you a huge win. Don't be fixated on ebony for the tailpiece, ebony is in my opinion too heavy for that role (mine's rosewood, I think... something not ebony and much lighter, anyway).
I can't comment on refinishing, but others have reported that being a win on cheaper basses too.
I did the lookin' but couldn't find the info on the benefits of finish removal. If you can send the info or link when you get a chance I'd appreciate it much. Thanks.
Replaced the original Engelhardt tailpiece and wire today with an ebony tailpiece and 3/32 stainless steel cable. It definitely changed the tone of the Bass. I have no way to test the results other than by ear but I have to say it was worth he expense. The tone seems to be fuller, richer now.
In a couple of weeks I will tear it all down and strip the finish. If I can figure out how to post photo's I will post a before and after strip shot. Also will be getting a new nut and a new bridge.
In a couple of weeks I will tear it all down and strip the finish. If I can figure out how to post photo's I will post a before and after strip shot. Also will be getting a new nut and a new bridge.
Do you have any way to make recordinge (pickup, microphone, iphone, etc)? I'd like to hear the differences before and after the finish removal.
