And I suppose you know the old swing band joke: "Arco is an Italian word meaning last note of ballad".
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Upright approximation - your preferred approach
- Thread starter jonners98
- Start date
I'm the closest I've ever sounded to approximating an upright with my Godin A5 strung with LaBella LTF's into an HX Stomp with the Berliner or Hawk IR's from 3 Sigma audio. Played a jazzy worship song last Sunday and the music leader was blown away with how "uprighty" it sounded. The Sire version of the A5 may be a good alternative if you get the GAS. Like others said, flats, eq, mute, and pluck over the neck will get you close.
This is the least expensive option and there are some great examples of Bob Crankshaw with the Hampton Hawes Trio or Milt Jackson doing this.
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OP is right that only an upright will really sound like an upright. The good news is only a small part of the audience will notice/care, and the ones that do might even appreciate the effort.
Lots of good advice already on how to get in the ballpark. I have my way, and maybe some of it is useful for you, maybe not. Experiment and see what works for you.
Part 1 is technique. Roll back the tone, play above the neck pickup. I’m a fan of the Jamerson-style one-finger plucking, too. Try to NOT play like a rock bassist and pluck with more of a roll of your finger across the string so you don’t get sharp attack. Think mellow, think economy of notes.
Part 2 is gear. If you can dedicate an instrument to it, I’d get a fretless bass, preferably semi-hollow, with piezos. I have a Ibanez SRD900F that checks all those boxes. If I really needed this sound often I’d put tapes on it. But flats, pressurewounds or really dead rounds will still do OK. Rolling off the tone control might not be enough, a little EQ to soften the highs can also help. Playing through an amp/cab that isn’t too scooped will also help.
With all that, does it sound just like an upright? Of course not. But the first time I did all that and played “Stand By Me” my wife in the next room thought it was the original bass track, not me, so that’s something.
Lots of good advice already on how to get in the ballpark. I have my way, and maybe some of it is useful for you, maybe not. Experiment and see what works for you.
Part 1 is technique. Roll back the tone, play above the neck pickup. I’m a fan of the Jamerson-style one-finger plucking, too. Try to NOT play like a rock bassist and pluck with more of a roll of your finger across the string so you don’t get sharp attack. Think mellow, think economy of notes.
Part 2 is gear. If you can dedicate an instrument to it, I’d get a fretless bass, preferably semi-hollow, with piezos. I have a Ibanez SRD900F that checks all those boxes. If I really needed this sound often I’d put tapes on it. But flats, pressurewounds or really dead rounds will still do OK. Rolling off the tone control might not be enough, a little EQ to soften the highs can also help. Playing through an amp/cab that isn’t too scooped will also help.
With all that, does it sound just like an upright? Of course not. But the first time I did all that and played “Stand By Me” my wife in the next room thought it was the original bass track, not me, so that’s something.
As mentioned earlier, an upright playing style/technique goes a long way in creating an upright bass illusion. Don't get too flashy with bass lines that would be hard to play on an upright. The long scale and string spacing of an upright creates a slower-speaking instrument. I also do a lot of fret-hand muting, usually on a Fender p-bass with TI Flats.
I also have a 2007 Line6 Variax 705 bass. This instrument was produced between 2005 and 2007. Piezo pickups only and about 24 different emulations. I think most of the settings sound nothing like the what they say they are, but there are a lot of usable sounds. I keep it around for 3 of the sounds: 8 and 12 string multicourse instruments and the upright emulation. The upright setting shows its flaws when played by itself, but in a big band or even county/bluegrass setting it is convincing enough-- kind of a tubby sound with a fairly quick decay. If I have a gig that features a lot of old big band swing songs, I'll show up with it.
I also have a 2007 Line6 Variax 705 bass. This instrument was produced between 2005 and 2007. Piezo pickups only and about 24 different emulations. I think most of the settings sound nothing like the what they say they are, but there are a lot of usable sounds. I keep it around for 3 of the sounds: 8 and 12 string multicourse instruments and the upright emulation. The upright setting shows its flaws when played by itself, but in a big band or even county/bluegrass setting it is convincing enough-- kind of a tubby sound with a fairly quick decay. If I have a gig that features a lot of old big band swing songs, I'll show up with it.
Last year, I shared my recipe for tic-tac bass in The Rickenbacker Club. Half of that recipe is an upright bass impression. What I do for that portion is engage the foam mutes in my Rickenbacker 4003, isolate the neck pickup, and lower the tone to 0. That's as close as I can get to an upright bass.
Single or split coil pickup that's nowhere near the bridge, high tension flats, foam mute, high action.
I went through a lot of instruments: Used a Godin fretless 5 string for a while, a fretless Ibanez Artcore short scale for a another while. Fender fretless P Bass too. And then the electric uprights, an Azola Bug Bass and an Eminence. They all worked OK, but either of my uprights with Realist or Realist Lifeline pickups and a good preamp worked better. For one thing, reading charts on a fretless bass guitar is not ideal. The electric uprights just felt flimsy or something. I would like to try a Yamaha Silent Bass.
Then I realized that, for my taste anyway, there is nothing that fits better and easier for big band bass than a regular fretted P Bass. I think Jimmy Blanton would have played one had they been available.
Then I realized that, for my taste anyway, there is nothing that fits better and easier for big band bass than a regular fretted P Bass. I think Jimmy Blanton would have played one had they been available.
I've tried everything to avoid hauling an upright; fretted fenders, hofners, or fretless ibanez and hofner...etc. I always felt my road worn 2008 jazz bass w/ flats and a bridge mute was the best alternative. Now that shoulder arthritis and an old back w/ disc disease has forced me to leave that at home I use a short scale bass I've also rediscovered I prefer the tone of a fretted electric fender or ss fender style over upright bass.
You can buy a page size black foam sheet for a buck or 2 at arts and crafts supply store that can easily be cut (with scissors) to make a super cheap version of the Nordy mute. I prefer it because it is thinner and so it doesn't mute so much as the wider ones you can buy. It easily stays in place. I can be pushed right up against the saddles to minimize muting, our pull out further to increase muting.
I also found this foam material useful for single string muting, especially to take the edge off the G string which can sometimes have different timbre compared to the others. I cut a small rectangle with a slit - hold it in place right up against the saddle by wedging it between the string and the intonation adjustment screw. Holds in place and provides a very minimal muting just enough to tame the G string.
I also found this foam material useful for single string muting, especially to take the edge off the G string which can sometimes have different timbre compared to the others. I cut a small rectangle with a slit - hold it in place right up against the saddle by wedging it between the string and the intonation adjustment screw. Holds in place and provides a very minimal muting just enough to tame the G string.
I guess the question is what about playing the upright bass is it that you're trying to avoid?
If you want smaller, I'd go for a stick bass. If you want really small, Precision with flats and a piece of felt under the strings at the bridge.
Yes. If you do this, then it really won't matter all that much exactly which object you use to play the appropriate bass parts - the key is playing the appropriate bass parts. Consider that in a big band, playing upright, what the audience reallly hears is your pickup run through an amplifier with a BIT of acoustic sound.
The Rob Allen or Godin config is probably as good as one can get. Piezo, fretless, chambered, and tape wound strings. I am fortunate to own some Rob Allen basses with a piezo and magnetic pickups. I mention this because I was able to A/B the piezo and magnetic pickups in the same bass. Magnetic pickups are missing so much of the rich texture that the piezo brings. It's like listening to an amazing song on crappy laptop speakers. The piezo is like putting that money on a pricey audio system.
The rest of it involves playing the backbeats and making noise to get a better simulation.
Best upright approximation I have come up with is my Rob Alan mouse through an acoustic image coda combo (down firing woofer) I started with a Godin A4 through an SWR combo nearly 30 years ago, but 10 years later transitioned to the Rob Allen through the AI (which are now only available used) 10 years later and never looked back.
I used my guitar player's ukulele bass with nylon strings. I didn't like playing it at all, but have to admit it sounded closest to the upright.
I once payed a Godin Acoustibass and it was also very upright-like. And the playability was great.
I once payed a Godin Acoustibass and it was also very upright-like. And the playability was great.
I happened to record a bit of DB yesterday, simple line, miked with a single Rode NT-1A so not how it'd be amplified on stage and not swing band material for sure, so it's not a comparison directly relevant to this thread, but I thought, why not record the same bit with the BGs I have handy and compare. All recordings just straight into the audio interface, no processing except noise reduction on the DB track.
First DB.
Then Atelier Z fully hollow body with octave4plus flatwounds (because it needs extra-long strings) and Hofner-looking pickups in a north-south config, all knobs on 10.
Then pink paisley Flying V with Chromes and a TV Jones Thunderblade in a middlish P-ish position, volume knob on 10.
Then ESP S-AH chambered bolt-on also with Chromes and Duncan vintage-voiced jazz pickups, and considerably lower action than the previous two, vol and tone on 10, blend a little towards the neck.
Visually, ye olde waveformes:
And spectra:
Make your own conclusions.
First DB.
Then Atelier Z fully hollow body with octave4plus flatwounds (because it needs extra-long strings) and Hofner-looking pickups in a north-south config, all knobs on 10.
Then pink paisley Flying V with Chromes and a TV Jones Thunderblade in a middlish P-ish position, volume knob on 10.
Then ESP S-AH chambered bolt-on also with Chromes and Duncan vintage-voiced jazz pickups, and considerably lower action than the previous two, vol and tone on 10, blend a little towards the neck.
Visually, ye olde waveformes:
And spectra:
Make your own conclusions.
