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Double Bass Upton "The Source" pickup

To the contrary, I think I explained quite well in post #14.

You did. But in other cases not or not helpful to me (I couldn't verify that I was wrong).

Maybe it is a language thing... maybe unintended... maybe it's, to a large extent my fault... happy to go forward.

If it is a language thing it is probably on my side, if it's a social thing (how to grow up and behave in the local area) it could be some incompatibility (which happened to me before with american media artists). Who can say who of us behaves strange, probably nobody.
If you didn't intend to push me down (as I interpreted it several times), I apologize.
Anyway we both should get back to normal now. I try not to get challenged by your contributions.

I know those type of people as well and it seems as if you're suggesting that I'm one of them.

I just said that "it reminds me a bit". And that it is just a memory connection. Which means there might be something (and just something!) in common on my perception side. Nothing else. Sometimes things like that come to mind, I might better think about if I write my thoughts down or not next time.
Maybe some kind of behaviour is a common "disease" of profession, every profession brings its special disease after some time, so nobody is free of them. So, of course, I most probably have some kind of professional disease too.
 
Gentlemen, time!

Brilliant idea,being totally integrated into the bridge! I've always been leery of wing pickups because of the possibility of bumping, with the best result being a loss of tonality and the worst result being destruction of the unit. But for $329, it would have to be significantly better than my Full Circle installed threads up,which accomplishes a lot of the same effect: getting more body into the tone.
 
I just said that "it reminds me a bit". And that it is just a memory connection...

I'm sure you can understand that when you say an interaction with me reminds you "a bit" of your interactions with intolerant, close-minded people, that that doesn't exactly indicate that you think the problem could be on your (the receiving) end. :)

...If it is a language thing it is probably on my side, if it's a social thing (how to grow up and behave in the local area) it could be some incompatibility...
Well, then let's go forward under the assumption that we misunderstood each other. It's all good as I see it. I'll endeavor to interpret your posts in a better light and see how it goes. :)

Gentlemen, time!
No referee required. I think it was worked out in gentlemanly fashion.
 
To leave my discussion with drurb about... (I think we both showed that we want to try our best to avoid this in the future, so I won't comment again.)

...and come back to the subject:

In my experience (from bridge wing, bridge foot and Full Circle pickups) and talking to people using other pickups (like the Wilson),
the closer the pickup sits to the strings the more intense is the pizz attack against the sustaining sound and also the brighter the sound is (maybe a special case with the bridge wing pickup for getting resonances of the wing).
Bowing intensity without any volume adjusting is better in relation to pizz the more away the pickup is from the string.
The closer to the top (on the top like bridge foot pickups) the more reverb like reflections from the top make the sound a bit muddy and unclear.

Sound is another thing. It heavily depends on the construction, mounting/pressure etc., but also on position between string and top.
I first thought the Full Circle is the worst pickup I tried. Heavy resonances etc. It got mounted as it should. After turning the pickup a bit it got quieter but the huge resonances were gone. I'm not totally happy with it, but will decide if I use the Shadow 965NFX (similar to Realist), First Circle (sensitive side on top), microphone or purely acoustic bass on band, music style and volume. I may like it upside down, but don't want to buy a new bridge for that just to try. Selling the First Circle and not buying a new bridge might get enough money for a single side Yamahiko. Maybe this sounds a bit better. But I will stay with mine for the next time.

The position somewhere in or near the leg seems to be optimal, so the Yamahiko, the First Circle, the BassBalsereit and Wilson K1 at the bridge leg seem to do the job nicely. I think the Upton Source will fall into the same category.
Unfortunately any of these need some modification of the bridge (cutting the bridge foot some with drilling into the bridge foot, hole in or on top of the bridge foot). The only one which needs no modification and could be put anywhere on the bridge is the Realist SoundClip. But this one has its own special issues, one of them that it is heavy and should not put on the bass permanently to avoid damage of the bass.

So we either damage our bridge in some way or live with a suboptimal solution. If we accept some "damage" the only thing we can do is deciding about the kind damage we accept best (and the kind of sound we get by it).

I just think that the Source is kind of a Full Circle with the metal adjuster stuff around replaced by some wood. (But then I cannot turn it for a better sound and must accept what it delivers.) Let's see/hear if it is better than the known solutions.

And yes, we can try to use our best using scientific methods and knowledge to get close to our goal, but since things are often enough more complex than we might think and some important knowlege might not exist (at all or in the developers), at the end we need to try to optimize. And sometimes we can learn from the results.

The musician is not interested how much work and knowledge was put into the development, he wants a good product, so this counts at the end. But scientific routes could help finding new ways to approach a goal, sometimes with good results and sometimes not.
 
Hey jorg, drurb, et all, have you ever used an erhlund? The source pickup looks like another attempt to make a piezo pickup sound good, but since I started using the erhlund I have not looked back at a piezo pickup. I am curious to know what you gentleman might think. Since I play classically as well as jazz, and only have one bass, I needed a pickup that wouldn't be permanently installed and I want no heavy preamp attached to my tailpiece. I simply pop the erhlund on when I need to play amplified, and there is very little loss or change to the acoustic tone if any, since there is no mass added to the bridge. I can't talk technical, but I have never been so happy with a pickup. Not everyone's cup of tea I am sure, but I am glad to have none of the issues you all have been describing.
 
This looks like natural progression from the Rev Solo pickup. Building it into the bridge makes a lot of sense to me because it removes the chance for excess resonances etc that comes when the fit of the Rev Solo is not optimal.
The only question I would have is the difference in response from the Rev Solo when it is flipped over in the wing slot. That improved the sound of my Rev Solo...but not enough to make me want to use it as my main pickup.
If the pickup is now a part of the bridge leg, what has been done to remove the two different sounds (logo up or down) of the Rev Solo piezo design?
 
Hey jorg, drurb, et all, have you ever used an erhlund? The source pickup looks like another attempt to make a piezo pickup sound good, but since I started using the erhlund I have not looked back at a piezo pickup. I am curious to know what you gentleman might think.

+1 Engedi 1
I was ready to pull the plug on a Barbera bridge when they first came out, but after I heard one it just wasn't worth the hassle. Later on when I found out how much trouble people had with them, I was really glad I passed on it. The Ehrlund just works so well on my bass, with an older Walter Woods amp that there's no reason for me to look at the Source. Treyser's experience was exactly the opposite of ours.


Since I play classically as well as jazz, and only have one bass, I needed a pickup that wouldn't be permanently installed and I want no heavy preamp attached to my tailpiece. I simply pop the erhlund on when I need to play amplified, and there is very little loss or change to the acoustic tone if any, since there is no mass added to the bridge. I can't talk technical, but I have never been so happy with a pickup. Not everyone's cup of tea I am sure, but I am glad to have none of the issues you all have been describing.

Agreed, if it works on your bass it works beautifully. The Realist was a god send when they first came out, and it's still a good pickup for bowing, but the Ehrlund takes it to a different level of tone quality and balance.

Ric
 
I have been very intrigued by the Ehrlund. Now that Gollihur is offering a trial period, I might just get pushed over the edge. If any of you would like to push me further, please PM as it would seem to be OT in this thread.
 
My budget is closed for a while, since I got a used First Circle and a used ATM 35 microphone some weeks ago and need to pay for travel and accomodation at Bass2012 in Copenhagen.

I heard the recordings Jonas Lohse made from different pickups (including the Ehrlund) and decided to stay with them and my Shadow 965 NFX for a while.
The Ehrlund sound from Jonas recordings didn't convince me, the DPA microphone was better as well as my ATM 35, but I expect the sensitivity to feedback of the Ehrlund to be much higher than the NFX (Realist-like) or First Circle.
I thought some time I should try the Ehrlund, but at this time I only tried a Oktava MK012 capacitor microphone through the underlengths for microphones (not bad for recording) and it was too feedback sensitive for live amplification (couldn't get much gain out of them).

I guess my expectations of bass amp sound are rather small (but growing, at least on the speaker side). I worked with a Shadow SH 950 bridge wing pickup (brighter than an Underwood) for a long time, before with a Schaller magnetic on my 4-string plywood, at the beginning with a guitar amp (when I was at school).

I like the sound Eddie Gomez got out of the Yamahiko. It's just the question how much of the sound is Eddie Gomez, his strings (Spiros?) or the Yamahiko.

The reason I tried so many strings was that I didn't like the thin high-C steels. What I can get out of the synthetic high-Cs is not the sound I would like best, but I can adapt to some of them. But since they are a bit darker than I want, I need a pickup that keeps the higher frequencies. So sometimes I even pull out the bridge wing pickup for amplification (if I don't need to bow).

I rather look out for a new amp (not too expensive) to replace my Polytone Mini-Brute II. (Some more power would be nice.) I think I will delay this at least until Bass2012 and would also try some bows with my bass over there.
 
My budget is closed for a while, since I got a used First Circle and a used ATM 35 microphone some weeks ago and need to pay for travel and accomodation at Bass2012 in Copenhagen.

That sounds like a great trip, I hope you have a wonderful time

I heard the recordings Jonas Lohse made from different pickups (including the Ehrlund)...........



The Ehrlund sound from Jonas recordings didn't convince me, the DPA microphone was better as well as my ATM 35, but I expect the sensitivity to feedback of the Ehrlund to be much higher than the NFX (Realist-like) or First Circle.
I thought some time I should try the Ehrlund....

I haven't located those recordings, but I have to tell you that the Ehrlund sounds very different live through a high quality amp or a sound system. All the recordings I've heard of this pickup don't represent it accurately.
I personally own a DPA 4099 B and it's a very detailed mic, but on my bass, with either Spirocore Weich or Correlli 370 TX strings, into a Walter Woods MI-400-8 the Ehrlund has a warmer response and can also go much louder before feeding back.

I like the sound Eddie Gomez got out of the Yamahiko. It's just the question how much of the sound is Eddie Gomez, his strings (Spiros?) or the Yamahiko......

Very interesting, I love Eddies playing, but I'm not enamored with his timbre, so our to tone goals are somewhat different.

I rather look out for a new amp (not too expensive) to replace my Polytone Mini-Brute II. (Some more power would be nice.) I think I will delay this at least until Bass2012 and would also try some bows with my bass over there.

Amplifiers have done a quantum leap since the Polytone's
I think you'll be astounded at the improvement's that have been made. Good Luck.


Ric
 
Here is the Link for Jonas's pickup recordings:
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I think he bufferd those pickups which need buffering before recording. Recording was done directly without any amp/preamp and without any equalization, if I remember correctly.

He sells these pickups in Germany, I include this link mainly to show his test bass arrangement:
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Looks to be similar to the Bass Max, which I've used successfully for years, playing bluegrass, jazz/lounge stuff & rock-a-billy & and only costs about $100.00...

Huh? The Source is embedded in the bridge; the BassMax is a bridge-wing pickup. The Rev Solo is a bridge-wing pickup as well. IME, the BassMax is a "hot" mid-range heavy unrefined device that has made every bass on which I've had it sound like a giant BG. I do understand that it fits the bill just fine for some.

I haven't had any experience with The Source but I'm hesitant to have anything permanently embedded in my bridge.
 
Huh? The Source is embedded in the bridge; the BassMax is a bridge-wing pickup. The Rev Solo is a bridge-wing pickup as well. IME, the BassMax is a "hot" mid-range heavy unrefined device that has made every bass on which I've had it sound like a giant BG. I do understand that it fits the bill just fine for some.

I haven't had any experience with The Source but I'm hesitant to have anything permanently embedded in my bridge.

Based on the basses I've played with embedded piezo elements,
I would definitely agree. Barcus Berry tried that years ago,with very poor results. Barbera's bridge insert sounded awful, to my ears. I remember playing the little vinyl demo record he sent with his literature and just scratching my head. The Wilson was a nightmare to install and wrecked your bridge in the process. Fortunately, I don't have to mess with those pickups.

Ric
 
Based on the basses I've played with embedded piezo elements,
I would definitely agree. Barcus Berry tried that years ago,with very poor results. Barbera's bridge insert sounded awful, to my ears. I remember playing the little vinyl demo record he sent with his literature and just scratching my head. The Wilson was a nightmare to install and wrecked your bridge in the process. Fortunately, I don't have to mess with those pickups.

Ric

Actually, my hesitation is because: 1) I'm too much of a purist and want to be able to have my "naked" bridge and 2) because if I don't like the sound, well, then I'm stuck. That is, my hesitation is not because I expect it will sound bad. Anyway, Ric, I think you know what is likely my next pickup! :)