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US income inequality at record high

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" Tax avoidance and lobbying
In December 2011, the non-partisan organization Public Campaign criticized DuPont for spending $13.75 million on lobbying and not paying any taxes during 2008–2010, instead getting $72 million in tax rebates, despite making a profit of $2.1 billion, and increasing executive pay by 188% to $27.4 million in 2010 for its top 5 executives."

-wikipedia.org/wiki/DuPont

Criticized? Part of a free nation is criticizing. It happens.

If that's the worst they can do it falls under the Woody Allen rule. IE there were no laws broken here.

It's getting near to the magic 1 K mark.

May I suggest that we sum up our positions for posterity.
 
...or own rental properties from earlier in your life and marry a medical doctor who can provide financial stability while you make a large financial investment such as post-secondary education (which I want to mention not only carries a discreet financial cost but also many opportunity costs) when you are middle-aged.

Not pickin' on ya, TwoFingers, but your reductionist answers often totally ignore social and economic structures at both micro and macro levels. That's not some form of learned helplessness or justification for the po' to stay po'. It's just a general reality of our social world. Luckily in America, we can overcome these structures (although perhaps not as easily as we can in certain European countries), but to pretend it's simple is just not inline with reality. Again, I urge you to register for a sociology course beyond Soc. 101 if you still have electives.

For the record, I purposefully remained unencumbered throughout my young adult life to gain as much education as I can. There have been a lot of sacrifices (i.e., opportunity costs) along the way. But the reality is we all succumb to a certain amount of bounded rationality. What is an otherwise sound financial/career decision at 25 may not be so much at 45, because the world has changed. At that point in time, you need to adapt but adapting ain't always so easy.

1) I said simple, not easy. They are two different things (to me). Simple implies that the choice is obvious. You know what you need to do. Doing it is another matter.

2) I married a medical STUDENT. She is now a doctor. We are still paying on here $110K college loans from two universities. I was financially fine when I met her. Could have sold a business and gone back to school if I never had.

3) I bought my first rental property at 27 years old. I lived in an apartment that was not as nice as the house I was renting out. Banks didn't have a problem back then loaning me $35K to buy a house that had a good rental track record of paying more than twice the mortgage payment. Do that a half dozen times and BOOM, yer a real estate MOGUL! Ha! I have always driven old cars and worn old/cheap clothes. While my musician buddies were buying beer and weed, I was buying beer and houses/stocks. They worked Friday and Saturday (maybe another night here and there) and I worked usually full-time jobs during the week, taught lessons at night, and started side projects to play on off nights. I burned it at both ends for a couple of decades. (Wonder why my first marriage didn't work out. Hmmmmmm. :eyebrow:)

4) Given the guy's dad's condition and age, he's absolutely correct. Moving would be a bad idea. However, my grandmother was in school until she was 75. She had long retired but was still taking nursing courses just to keep up with what was going on in her field. So there is no reason why the dad couldn't learn a new trade, even at 62. He could even learn one that wasn't so hard on his body. My father (also 62) does tax returns for extra money. He learned how in a few weekend courses. Perhaps that, and maybe working behind the counter at a paint store would pay enough and not beat him up. My POINT is, everybody seems to act as though things are HOPELESS! There's NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE! Oh woah is me!!!! If the dad is 62, he's been around the block a few times. Just simply saying "His pay sucks. His health is bad. His mom is bad off. And the real estate market is awful. There must be ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to make things better. It's OVER!" is a really sad way to see it.

I'm sure you guys think that somehow I got it made. Somehow I'm not telling the whole story. At some point I inherited a gagillion dollars. I married into money. Nope. I just never approached a brick wall or roadblock with the attitude of "Oh well. Can't go this way. Somebody put this here to stop me so I'll either turn back or stay right here." I went at it with "Hmmmmm. How do I get OVER or AROUND this thing? I don't give a crap who put it here, but it's in my way and it's gotta go!" (This is the same way I am approaching college algebra, even though I SUCK at it. What a useless bunch of bouncing numbers off of each other.) By the way, in case I have given anyone here the impression that I am filthy rich, that is not the case. Far from it. (Oh, but I will be before it's all over.)

Anyway. You guys did it. You dragged me back in here after I said I was done. I guess the thing that bothers me is that so many in this country today just seem so DEFEATED. So down. So helpless. And the problem is that they aren't. They are just either CONVINCED that there is no use in trying, or uncomfortable with what comes right AFTER they decide to try.

I'm not brilliant. I'm not special. I'm not mean or greedy. I'm just not giving up so easy. I'm just not throwing in the towel. I cut up the towel and ate it long ago. Throwing it in is no longer an option. Sounds like a cheesy "self help guru" line of BS. But I guess if you remove the safety net, you pretty much have to catch the trapeze when it comes by, right?

Either way, I truly hope everything works out fine with the dad and family mentioned here. Sorry things are tough. I don't have all the answers. but I don't give up if the answers don't land in my lap either.

Here's a tip for you guys (speaking of self help gurus). Check out Bryan Tracey. Learning his ways of staying motivated and using time wisely (Two Fingers says as he should be doing homework right now) will change your life.
 
I don't think that at anytime is US history people were living as good as they do in recent times. Inequality and all.

Far from it. Our unemployment and underemployment is still unacceptable, and it's even worse if you consider those who've given up looking for work or were forced into taking early retirement. We have less overall wealth than decades past, and our dollar doesn't go nearly as far as it once did. The cost of living has gone up so people have less ability to save. If you can't save you can't invest. If you can't invest you can't plan for your future, get educated, or have any real shot of elevating your status. You can say they can get on welfare, but if you're opposed of welfare then wouldn't raising wages help get people off of it since they'd no longer qualify?
 
Since we're getting all wonky, some interesting things that I noticed in the graph:

1. We lazy, self-entitled Americans, are among the most productive workers in the world. (I also looked up non-PPP adjusted GDP to confirm that the same trend applies there as well). My quick and dirty calculation suggests that we produce approximately the same output per dollar of wages as workers in China. In each case, per capita GDP is about twice the median income.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_per_capita_personal_income

2. Delaware, land of scientists, as mentioned above.

This is another thing that gets lost.The US is still a major manufacturer. And as graph makes clear no one of any consequence is living anything like we do.

I have a house larger than any human needs. I have friends with garages the size of my house.

I Had a friend with a net worth similar to the annual GDP of the lowest nation GDP in Wiki.

Our public assistance provides a life better than the rich in most nations our size have.

We have members from other nations. In fact I seem to recall buying a wah from a guy in Norway. Can you buy gas for less than 3 E a gallon? We do all day long. And most do not appreciate this in the least. Instead of showing gratitude for this miracle people drive gas guzzlers the size of houses that inhale gas like it's free.

Thanksgiving is coming up. In the US Thanksgiving should be every day.

I suggest we all take look around at just how good we have it. Talk to the guy that comes from somewhere else. You might be surprised.
 
So we can just stop where were at? "Seems fine.". If your house is missing a roof, has no doors, and no heating and you know winter is coming do you just get a roof on and quit? "Hey, it's better than before!"

Nope. But there will always be cracks that the cold air will find to slip through, no mater how hard you try to fill them. You can spray the whole house in tool dip, but the cold will find a crack.

Some people you just can't help. So, put new windows and doors on, a new roof, and a heating system (you know, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, housing subsidies, financial aid for school, free phones, school lunch program, etc.) and call it a day. Trying to caulk every conceivable hole is a waste of time, effort, energy, and money. It has never worked anywhere in history and it won't now.

I'll see your analogy and raise you another. (or simile or metaphor... I always forget which is which :confused:)
 
Nope. But there will always be cracks that the cold air will find to slip through, no mater how hard you try to fill them. You can spray the whole house in tool dip, but the cold will find a crack.

Some people you just can't help. So, put new windows and doors on, a new roof, and a heating system (you know, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, housing subsidies, financial aid for school, free phones, school lunch program, etc.) and call it a day. Trying to caulk every conceivable hole is a waste of time, effort, energy, and money. It has never worked anywhere in history and it won't now.

I'll see your analogy and raise you another. (or simile or metaphor... I always forget which is which :confused:)

What if the roof once faced in catastrophically, so you fixed the supports, only to do away with them later and ignore the cause of smaller failures while only patching them over? What can you expect next?
 
This is another thing that gets lost.The US is still a major manufacturer. And as graph makes clear no one of any consequence is living anything like we do.

I have a house larger than any human needs. I have friends with garages the size of my house.

I Had a friend with a net worth similar to the annual GDP of the lowest nation GDP in Wiki.

Our public assistance provides a life better than the rich in most nations our size have.

We have members from other nations. In fact I seem to recall buying a wah from a guy in Norway. Can you buy gas for less than 3 E a gallon? We do all day long. And most do not appreciate this in the least. Instead of showing gratitude for this miracle people drive gas guzzlers the size of houses that inhale gas like it's free.

Thanksgiving is coming up. In the US Thanksgiving should be every day.

I suggest we all take look around at just how good we have it. Talk to the guy that comes from somewhere else. You might be surprised.

I get where you're coming from, but urge you to watch out for the "appeal to worse problems" fallacy:

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What I'd like to do is pick and choose from among the best things that each country offers, and use activism to advocate those things here. Many countries have better K-12 education, a broader safety net, more public transit, better privacy protections, more entrepreneurship, and so forth. Folks in many countries don't need to accumulate so much wealth because they face less risk if things don't go perfectly for them. There are countries where people save a less money, or no money at all, for things like college, health care costs, subsistence during retirement, unemployment, etc. As a result, they can spend more of what they earn with less risk, and end up seeming more affluent.

Nobody in Europe is worried about the price of bullets. (j/k)
 
What if the roof once faced in catastrophically, so you fixed the supports, only to do away with them later and ignore the cause of smaller failures while only patching them over? What can you expect next?

Wait... was the roof the economy and the windows the socio-economic status of the poor? Or was the roof taxes and the foundation the rich? Or was it the windows are evil bankers and the siding was the working class? Or was it the deck furniture is the guy working at McDonald's and the carpet was the "rich fat cat 1%er"? I'm so lost right now. :confused:

What we need are some government regulators and inspectors to come in here and tell the unionized construction workers making $75 an hour plus benefits to swing a hammer how to fix this $35K house with $4.8 billion dollars worth of repairs! THAT will get it done! (right up until we get about $4.1 billion dollars into the repairs and we still haven't even finished the roof so we need more money.) ;)

Hey, I don't come across nearly as mean with all the smileys and junk. I shoulda' been using those little bastards all along!
 
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