USB rechargeable onboard preamp power- Why not more common?

[bucephylus]

Each to their own.

Onboard bass preamps, like certain other devices such as smoke detectors, are what are referred to as “low drain” devices. You can put rechargeable cells in them; but, those rechargeable cells require much more frequent changeouts than the non-rechargeable cells. If you have an access swing out door, that approach could work. I would prefer to be able to go 6 months or even a year as opposed to replacing the rechargeable once a month or whatever.

Pick your poison. The MTD has two screws. I’m perfectly happy to use the longer capacity non-rechargeable in mine and pay attention. But, that’s me.

 

[Nev375]

I'd end up destroying USB charging cables/jacks faster than I'd deplete batteries on a bass I never unplug.

This is why i'm a die hard advocate for passive basses. But if USB power is what you want... you should definitely do that!

But frankly I'd build my own phantom power cable system and use a mic cable if I were forced to go active.

 

[Klangfarbe]

Sure - but at an eye-watering price. A standard 9V battery is significantly cheaper.

Are you referring to the instrument or the electronics?

The bass is of course very expensive, but the charging electronics alone only cost about 250 as far as I know.

Just as an alternative to counteract the eternal fear of dying batteries on stage: Richter offers a pre-amp that includes an LED that turns on when the battery is low. In this case you still have enough reserves to be able to continue playing for an hour with the preamp fully turned on.

http://www.richter-ee.de/pdf/3BP-EN-2009.pdf

 

[mikeswals]

Why isnt this the norm on new basses with onboard active preamps? If the user could have the option to plug in their bass and charge the battery the night before a gig they could have the confidence to do it without pulling the battery, testing it, throwing away good batteries, or hoping for the best. I would love to see this as the norm.

Or the bass owner could just change the battery before the show?

how long has the battery been in there?

All of my active basses: when they were new I used a battery tester to check how long I can leave a 9v battery in there. I came up with over two years.
I cannot see the need for a recharger that I'd probably have to use every other show, when a std 9v lasts well beyond two years.

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[Gorilla Monsoon]

As long as you remember to unplug your active instrument, a good quality 9v should last at least 850 hours with a Sadowsky preamp, 300 hours with an Aguilar, 600 hours with EMGs, - 200 hours with the EMG boost, Bartolinis are rated @ 500 hours, and the Seymour Duncan preamps are rated @ 1000 hours, so battery life really varies depending on your preamp.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Or the bass owner could just change the battery before the show?

how long has the battery been in there?

All of my active basses: when they were new I used a battery tester to check how long I can leave a 9v battery in there. I came up with over two years.
I cannot see the need for a recharger that I'd probably have to use every other show, when a std 9v lasts well beyond two years.

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Love the Batt-O-Meter, wish it handled 18V instruments.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Li batteries have a relatively high self-discharge rate and a relatively low charge cycle life. That means the battery will self-discharge at a higher rate than you would typically use it, and the capacity will start to diminish fairly quickly once you've hit a certain number of charge cycles. If you've kept a cell phone longer than a couple years, you'll recognize that the phone doesn't hold charge very long at certain point and you're constantly charging it when you're not using it.

Li cell chemistries typically run about 3.7V/cell, which means 3 cells will give you 11.1V. Many older 9V preamps were limited by capacitor voltages. Not a big deal, but the preamps need to be designed around the supply voltage. Also, Li batteries require a significant amount of charge and discharge protection, as well as voltage boost circuits and smart chargers specifically designed around the exact chemistry of the battery. That almost guarantees that FCC Part 15 is required in the US and CE and EU required elsewhere in the world. It can all be done, but there is a certain amount of expertise required, and a lot of added cost.

My feeling is that the market just isn't big enough to support the engineering and regulatory costs required. A large company like Warwick can absorb those costs, but they are the exception.

 

[chadds]

I write on my batts when they were installed. Swap before important gigs and use the old but perky ones in something not crucial.

Dave Maize used rechargeables in basses for testing but said they draw differently and aren’t up to the task of powering a bass for performance consistently.

If my batts went down which would be human error I’d walk to the mic and tell them that quick maintenance was happening. If the audience is yours they can empathize with this. Makes you human. You rocked them hard and had to stop a moment. Then you bring it again. Ever had an amp blow and an audience member tell you he will leave and bring you one? Then bring you one? Yep this can be congenial and the show must go on.

 

[Geri O]

I had a P-Retro in a Precision for a while, which was recharged via USB but it didn't last anywhere what a typical onboard preamp with an alkaline 9V does.

Was that the John East unit? It's still listed on the East website, but it's been unavailable for over a year now, maybe more. Looks like that one is shown with a wall wart attached to a TRS plug for charging purposes.

Good grief....I was looking for the East battery meter that I've used in a few basses. It, as well as that Batt-O-Meter (didn't work with 18V preamps!) are cited as "no longer in production"....

Oh, well, no problem. It's still "change batteries every 3-4 months" for me.

 

[Koshchei]

Adding redundant backups is moving in the wrong direction, but typical of German engineering - adding complexity to deal with complexity makes the problem more complex still.

 

[JakobT]

Are you referring to the instrument or the electronics?

The bass is of course very expensive, but the charging electronics alone only cost about 250 as far as I know.

Just as an alternative to counteract the eternal fear of dying batteries on stage: Richter offers a pre-amp that includes an LED that turns on when the battery is low. In this case you still have enough reserves to be able to continue playing for an hour with the preamp fully turned on.

http://www.richter-ee.de/pdf/3BP-EN-2009.pdf

I’m referring to the instrument. Of course the charging electronics themselves are cheaper, but given the price of a 9V battery the price difference is still significant.

That’s not to say that I’m opposed to a recharging solution. On the contrary, I think it could be an improvement, if properly implemented. But any solution for an active bass where you are unable to quickly replace the power source when the power gives out is a step backward, IMHO, however technically advanced.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Was that the John East unit? It's still listed on the East website, but it's been unavailable for over a year now, maybe more. Looks like that one is shown with a wall wart attached to a TRS plug for charging purposes.

Good grief....I was looking for the East battery meter that I've used in a few basses. It, as well as that Batt-O-Meter (didn't work with 18V preamps!) are cited as "no longer in production"....

Oh, well, no problem. It's still "change batteries every 3-4 months" for me.

No longer available, but it was called the P-Retro.

 

[Deleted member 389437]

View attachment 5026982 I’m more curious as to why more companies don’t use the 9V battery door. Real quick to change a battery, could even do it mid measure of a song and be right back into it.

If you’re using an instrument that requires a 9V to function you should be keeping a spare in your tool bag. Rechargeable batteries eventually stop holding a charge. USB ports can go bad. USB cables go bad or get updated. I can only imagine playing a gig and realizing my $150 specialty designed battery died and there isn’t any USB XYZ to 6.0 cables to be found.

Edited to show battery box.

I agree with you on this, I feel like this would become a big issue, and could just start more problems. If all active basses just had battery doors and a little meter next to them that indicates their charge, that would be great!!

 

[Thegreatzambini]

I would love to leave the ancient 9 V behind and just use a USB style to charge my instrument. rechargeable batteries are the norm now they’re in every bloody phone we own and people seem to manage to keep those charged. And if my rechargeable system needs a certain type of usb connection, I buy one of those and keep it especially in my gig bag for that so the whole scenario of not having the right charger at the time is a moot point really. Also, 9 V battery or not I would never own an instrument that had to have a power source to operate. All my actives have the passive option.
At the very least we should all be going rechargeable 9v’s, the single use disposable 9 V really is a waste…. and very outdated.

 

[Aidenn7]

It's called a backup bass.. A Murphy law rig requirement..

 

[Killing Floor]

I use a mix of active and passive basses and I got my first set of active (EMG) in 1985. I guess I’m either very lucky or well prepared as I have never had a battery fail in a gig or rehearsal.
I’ve also never showed up to a gig without a cable or amp. I think these are linked.

 

[brianrost]

I've always wondered why active basses aren't powered by phantom power instead of disposable batteries.

Alembic had an external power supply 50 years ago. Notice the 5 pin XLR jack, so it's not phantom power. I'm sure they had a reason for doing it this way.

 

[scubaduba]

All of my active basses: when they were new I used a battery tester to check how long I can leave a 9v battery in there. I came up with over two years.
I cannot see the need for a recharger that I'd probably have to use every other show, when a std 9v lasts well beyond two years.

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I hope my Batt-0-Meter never dies. They are out of production now.

 

[brianrost]

NS Design is offering a battery-free power option in some instruments. It charges a capacitor through the output jack using an AC charger. There's a passive bypass for emergencies (the models using batteries have no passive bypass).

According to the website: "The NXTa Series instruments have a dual mode output; a passive mode identical to the original NXT series instruments, and active mode that uses the supplied charger to plug into any AC outlet for 60 seconds to power the capacitor-powered active circuit for up to 16 hours of performance time." So charge it once when you get to the gig and you're good. A spare charger is about $40.

 

[InhumanResource]

I’m in the camp of just replacing my battery more often than needed, but I do agree more manufacturers should go with the easy access battery cover. I do carry extras in my gig bag and happen to use an instrument with an active/passive switch just to be on the safe side.