Double Bass Use of tablets at jams

[Ed S]

I've recently encountered this at 2 BG jams, but I'm starting the thread here, as I suspect it may apply to different genres.

I've played at BG/oldtime jams pretty frequently for several years. The standard practice was to pick up the chords by reading a guitatist's hand shapes. Hopefully the leader would say something like, "It is in A - basic 1/4/5, but it hangs on the A and the odd chord is a B minor." At times, someone would bring pages with the words and chords and pass them around.

I recently joined 2 new jams at which the standard is for pickers to use tablets. I had previously encountered tablets maily in classical music settings, as an alternative to wrangling sheet music. I readily acknowledge the benefits tablets can bring, but my impression (after only a few sessions with these groups) is that people tend to be overly focussed on their tablets. Before each song, there is a clustef__ of people asking to be sent the chords. The leaders often do not think to call out the key for those not using chords. Then, as the song progresses, iMO too many people remain focussing on their tablets - instead of looking around at their fellow pickers.

I guess I'm thinking that their is no problem with tablet USE, but my initial impression is that tablet use seems to necessarily result in OVERUSE/ABUSE. And I thought there was some benefit to be derived from "figuring out" the songs organically, rather than simply reading the chords/tab.

Anyone else have experiences/thoughts about the use of tablets in jams?

 

[Don Hergert]

My wife and I try to gently influence people to watch, listen and learn songs from what the other people in the jam are doing -- especially including body language -- as this is the essence of a good jam in bluegrass. Bluegrass jams are immersive. People who are staring at either paper music or tablets cannot experience that, and they also cannot learn improvisation.

To us a tablet is no better or worse than paper, and tablature is no better or worse than written music. In a bluegrass jam, they are all distractions from what is really important.

The only excuse for these methods, to us, is having lyrics written down for the purpose of memorizing them -- but they are still distractions and every effort should be to not have to use them for long.

 

[AGCurry]

I agree with your impression. I used to go to jazz jam sessions where people used real books or the like; they were useful as lead sheets when you're unfamiliar with the songs.

But most true jam sessions - in my experience - are for ear players and assume some familiarity with the material and/or a good ear. Mistakes are made, and it's okay. Ironically, it's the SIMPLE songs that can confound me a little: When you have only 3 or 4 chords in a song you don't know, those chords can go anywhere! But after one or two choruses, I get it.

When players focus on the "ink" too much, the jam session becomes more about playing the song "right" and less about enjoying the music. Of course, that statement only applies when the players have the skills to play the song more-or-less right AND enjoy the music.

 

[BobKay]

I know this sounds elitist, but I would not participate in a BG jam where people needed tablets. Maybe just because I've been doing this for 50+ years now, or maybe because it's a distraction. IMHO, if you're reading, you're not listening. And listening is key.

 

[Don Hergert]

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but I'll add this... There are a few more formal teaching sessions for bluegrass jams that actually encourage people to use -- and seemingly always re-use -- written music for jam sessions. Then those same people go to real jams with the same paperwork or tablets which form huge distractions.

I'm not at all against beginner jams, in fact I have a history of helping with them a lot. But I consider the methodology of constantly reinforcing use of written material in jams is a mistake. If beginners need to use written materials at the earliest stages, they should use those at home for practicing, but also practice at home without them as soon as possible, so when they go to jams they don't need them.

The sooner a person can get their attention on what the whole jam is doing, the better they'll keep up.

As someone who has jammed in bluegrass circles using improv for decades, I do still have my weaknesses... I've recently begun jamming on double bass with some true old-tyme fiddlers (old-tyme is sort of a sub-genre of bluegrass) and while I love the experience, the songs are tough. Lots of crooked songs in either A or D and lots of other form-related quirks to learn. A person who is new to this kind of jam has to listen and watch really carefully and learn each song very quickly. Fun, but very challenging.

 

[Ed S]

Thanks all. Of the 2 jams I describe, one is a lower level and larger number, and the tablet reliance is greater. I was surprised that the other - which is invite only and has several high-level pickers - also used tablets, tho not as universally or to such a degree.

I know several classically trained string players who basically refuse to jam - they just can't play music that isn't written down. I always thought picking up tunes by ear and figuring how to make the best music with those in the room with you was one of the most desirable aspects of jamming. One of my good friends is a quite accomplished, state champ multi instrumentalist and teacher. He is all about spreading the music and inspiring youth, and he REFUSES to teach anyone from sheet music!

In one way, playing off a tablet/paper might give the IMPRESSION that you learned the song more quickly. But In another respect, going right to the tablet/paper constrains your contribution and growth. I love the heritage of people getting together and entertaining themselves and others with their music. Everyone sharing/staring at paper/e-files doesn't quite fit with what I'm striving towards!

Now in classical music, I can see a tablet being an improvement over a huge sheaf of paper. Or in a band, where you want to remember arrangements or something.

 

[Don Hergert]

My late brother was a pretty decent concert violinist, and he could only play from music -- he had never developed improv. I respect that deeply for genre that require written music... And I agree, a tablet would be very nice in those circumstances.

We did try to play together once, me on banjo and him on violin... It wasn't pretty. I couldn't play songs he could play, and he couldn't play songs that I could play.

But, bluegrass is generally not a genre that requires written music, at least in jams or performance. I used to use tablature while learning tunes in my early days, until I caught on about improv. I haven't seriously looked at tablature since then, although I have used some NNS charts occasionally though the years.

 

[turf3]

I hope that they're using tablets just for words.

I go to bluegrass jams with a notebook of song sheets that I'm prepared to sing. I can't remember words well, and it also tells me what key. For songs other people are leading, 90+% of the time I either already know it or I go by ear. On occasion, especially people doing their own songs with oddball forms (and some of them are - well, rhythm-challenged - I will look over their shoulder to get the chords.

When you add the computer, everything slows down because now you have to wait for everyone to pull it up. Meantime, I'm just standing there waiting for them to start the darn tune.

For me at least, amateur players who haven't really learned the tune are the hardest to follow, and old experience heads that have the tunes down cold are far easier to follow. They'll also be quicker to realize the bass player is having trouble following and will turn toward you and play clear chord shapes,. whereas the amateur is more likely to play weird chord shapes and be all strummy-strummy making them harder to follow.

 

[Daniel B5]

I'm currently in two bands, mostly doing covers.

The first band formed about a year ago as a few of us decided to get back into playing music. We've been playing with a tablet cast onto a TV screen for chords and lyrics. Over time we added a fiddler and keyboardist who both use their own tablets for written music. The projected chords are often based on a capo'ed guitar so it was confusing for them (I transpose mentally, but I get it).

The second band I joined just a few months ago, and the vocalist and two of the guitarists use their own tablets attached to their mic stands. The third guitarist (yeah it's a guitar heavy band!), drummer, and I work from memory.

I've come a lot further with the second band, even though I've been practicing with the first one on a weekly basis.

Band #1 feels kind of like we're playing Rock Band. Before seeing this thread, I was already considering suggesting the switch to individual tablets / phones / printed music / memory... that way there won't be a giant thing on the wall taking our attention away from each other. Now I'm definitely going to recommend that change.

 

[bucephylus]

There simply is no standard format for open mic / jam sessions.

Some are run by ear players, some by readers; some by nice people, others by “local celebs.”

Blues tends to encourage using the ears; Jazz can be heavy on charts; I suppose Bluegrass may lean towards Jazz.

I sat as house bass for a Blues open mic in Mid-Michigan in the 90’s for 3+ years, which was just an awesome experience.

The last open mic I went to was a Jazz session in Tucson. The house bass player showed me his tablet, remarking, “oh, you can transpose too,” as he left the stage without showing me the procedure. I sang and performed Summertime to enthusiastic audience response. Then, the house bass player came up and called out one of those standards for a vocalist with a gazillion changes; chart in Eb, but he called for transpose to C, and left the stage. Without the slightest clue how to alter the chart, I chuffed through the minor third down transpose; and immediately headed for the exit. That was what I would consider a bush league setup, intended to embarrass.

IME, the people matter more than the format.

 

[brianrost]

I must be getting way too old! Needing charts of any kind at a bluegrass picking party? Maybe if it’s going to be all David Grisman, Tony Rice, Bela Fleck and Punch Brothers songs

Jazz session, sure, whip out some charts.

 

[turf3]

...

Blues tends to encourage using the ears; Jazz can be heavy on charts; I suppose Bluegrass may lean towards Jazz.

...

No, standard practice in bluegrass is nothing written. But tablets have started coming in. My notebook used to get a lot of side-eye glances, now it's only remarkable because it's not electronic.

 

[turf3]

I must be getting way too old! Needing charts of any kind at a bluegrass picking party? Maybe if it’s going to be all David Grisman, Tony Rice, Bela Fleck and Punch Brothers songs

Jazz session, sure, whip out some charts.

And for jazz, lead sheets are as far as people go - I often use a chord chart when playing bass. Not really what I'd think of as "charts" which I interpret as "arrangements".

 

[newfuture]

I am relatively new to the BG world, and have brought both books and tablets to jams in the past as I was getting familiar with the material.

That said, now that I am more familiar with the style and tunes, I no longer bring either.

 

[logdrum]

And for jazz, lead sheets are as far as people go - I often use a chord chart when playing bass. Not really what I'd think of as "charts" which I interpret as "arrangements".

Haha. You are a big band specialist. Way above most of our pay grades. I remember when you had to pay for charts, I lived 7 floors up a building in the Flat Iron district in Manhattan and they sold sheet music and the other offices were book keepers. No page turners and what 6 tpages or more laid across 2 or more music stands. Did not know BG needed chord charts. Are these Bela Fleck or Edgar Myer modern BG/Jazz compositions

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO: If the jam is run inconsistent with your expectations; find another jam!

People may attend this particular jam specifically because using a tablet works for them. These player may be totally out of their element in the type of jam you like. We are all different, and IMHO that should be respected. So it's not your place to judge or fix the situation. Instead, find a place where you fit in, and be happy.

Likewise, anyone who comes to the type of jam you like expecting to use a tablet should be encouraged to either fit in or be on their way.

 

[turf3]

Haha. You are a big band specialist. Way above most of our pay grades. I remember when you had to pay for charts, I lived 7 floors up a building in the Flat Iron district in Manhattan and they sold sheet music and the other offices were book keepers. No page turners and what 6 tpages or more laid across 2 or more music stands. Did not know BG needed chord charts. Are these Bela Fleck or Edgar Myer modern BG/Jazz compositions

No, as I said the standard for BG is nothing written, but I use a notebook for lyrics of the songs I sing. Playing jazz I sometimes use a lead sheet, sometimes a chord chart. Of course in the big band the arrangement, but I don't play a lot of bass in the big band.

 

[oren]

Haha. You are a big band specialist. Way above most of our pay grades. I remember when you had to pay for charts, I lived 7 floors up a building in the Flat Iron district in Manhattan and they sold sheet music and the other offices were book keepers. No page turners and what 6 tpages or more laid across 2 or more music stands. Did not know BG needed chord charts. Are these Bela Fleck or Edgar Myer modern BG/Jazz compositions

I recently started playing in a big band here, and at the second rehearsal the leader handed out parts for a Bob Brookmeyer tune from the Mel Lewis Band. The bass part was ten pages - Even two music stands weren’t enough!

 

[scrubhelmet]

I guess I'm thinking that their is no problem with tablet USE, but my initial impression is that tablet use seems to necessarily result in OVERUSE/ABUSE.

Yeah I think so. For complicated tunes, I'd use my tablet in jazz open jams to have a guide for the chord chart, but my ears are still focused on what everyone is doing. The local jazz bar in my place also recently started shoving songs that instrumentalists don't know, although they are usually tunes with simple structure. However, I'd actually be more focused with everyone in this case so I'd be familiar with the head and the form.

Almost everyone uses tablet in our place, regardless of proficiency. The exceptions would be most drummers (but they'd ask for the duration of the tune if they don't know it) and the house bassist. I also don't it for tunes that are simple.

 

[logdrum]

No, as I said the standard for BG is nothing written, but I use a notebook for lyrics of the songs I sing. Playing jazz I sometimes use a lead sheet, sometimes a chord chart. Of course in the big band the arrangement, but I don't play a lot of bass in the big band.

I was referring to your woodwind and jazz experience. and you made the distinction between what charts really mean and that this iReal Pro that most fols use are nothing but chord charts Man I am complementing you.