Using Send and Return for FX pedals.

[FenderB]

I watched a Rhett Schull video about running your FX pedals through the send and return jacks instead of plugging them in between your guitar and amp. From what I understand ( and that's not much) this will eliminate your pre-amp from the chain. Is there any benefit in this for us bass players? Do any of you seasoned player do this? Can any pedal be used in this setup? I have a Rumble 200 but haven't tried it yet for fear of screwing something up.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[beans-on-toast]

It depends on the amp and the pedal design. If the amp's send level is compatible with the input level that the pedal requires, no problem. Try it and see if it works for you.

Personally, I prefer the sound of pedals going into the instrument in of the amp. The preamp tone controls are useful in shaping the sound, especially in dialing down the highs.

 

[lz4005]

I watched a Rhett Schull video about running your FX pedals through the send and return jacks instead of plugging them in between your guitar and amp. From what I understand ( and that's not much) this will eliminate your pre-amp from the chain.

Putting a pedal in the effects loop does not eliminate the amp's preamp section from the chain, because you still plug your bass into the normal input of the amp.

The only way to bypass the preamp is to plug an outboard preamp directly into the return with nothing in the send or normal input jack.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

From what I understand ( and that's not much) this will eliminate your pre-amp from the chain.

If you are actually using the loop (the send into your pedals, and the out from your pedals to the return) while plugging directly into the front end of the amp, you will NOT be bypassing the preamp. It will just come before your pedals.

You also have to make sure the pedals will not be overdriven, as you will be dealing with line level signal instead of instrument level.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

As @lz4005 says, it doesn't. It does change the path. Here is the difference:
going into the amp input:
Bass->pedals->preamp->power amp->speakers

using effects loop:
Bass->preamp->effects send->pedals->effects returm->power amp->speakers

The effects send is just an ouput from the preamp. The effects return is just an input into the power amp. You can chain amp together by send a signal from the effects send of one amp to the effects return of another. The preamp controls on the first amp controls both amps.

 

[FenderB]

It depends on the amp and the pedal design. If the amp's send level is compatible with the input level that the pedal requires, no problem. Try it and see if it works for you.

Personally, I prefer the sound of pedals going into the instrument in of the amp. The preamp tone controls are useful in shaping the sound, especially in dialing down the highs.

So you don't use the send/return option?

 

[FenderB]

Putting a pedal in the effects loop does not eliminate the amp's preamp section from the chain, because you still plug your bass into the normal input of the amp.

The only way to bypass the preamp is to plug an outboard preamp directly into the return with nothing in the send or normal input jack.

Thanks Lz4005, like I said, my understanding of how all this works together is pretty shallow.

 

[beans-on-toast]

So you don't use the send/return option?

Almost never. My exception is to feed the preamp signal into a DI. The effect receive can be used as a power amp in from another preamp.

From what I see, I don't think that many use the send and receive for effects these days. It used to be more popular when signal levels were higher and studio line level outboard gear was used.

 

[basscooker]

Also need to be sure the pedal has an appropriate output level to drive the power amp when using the return.

 

[FenderB]

If you are actually using the loop (the send into your pedals, and the out from your pedals to the return) while plugging directly into the front end of the amp, you will NOT be bypassing the preamp. It will just come before your pedals.

You also have to make sure the pedals will not be overdriven, as you will be dealing with line level signal instead of instrument level.

So if the preamp comes before the pedals then it won't be able modify the pedals sound?

 

[FenderB]

Also need to be sure the pedal has an appropriate output level to drive the power amp when using the return.

Ok, so how do I figure that out?

 

[FenderB]

Almost never. My exception is to feed the preamp signal into a DI. The effect receive can be used as a power amp in from another preamp.

From what I see, I don't think that many use the send and receive for effects these days. It used to be more popular when signal levels were higher and studio line level outboard gear was used.

Thanks beans-on-toast I appreciate the response. I better leave well enough alone since I only have a rudimentary understanding of how all this stuff works together.

 

[basscooker]

You wont hurt anything if it isn't enough juice. You will just notice that it's quiet or weak. Try and see.

I would poke around the pedal breeder threads and seek guidance there. Some effects work better in the loop, some before the preamp; some have instrument level inputs/ outputs, some line level. Some both.

 

[lizardking837]

As @lz4005 says, it doesn't. It does change the path. Here is the difference:
going into the amp input:
Bass->pedals->preamp->power amp->speakers

using effects loop:
Bass->preamp->effects send->pedals->effects returm->power amp->speakers

The effects send is just an ouput from the preamp. The effects return is just an input into the power amp. You can chain amp together by send a signal from the effects send of one amp to the effects return of another. The preamp controls on the first amp controls both amps.

Just spit balling here, so in theory, I could use a tiny amp purely for the tone and a much more powerful one for the power? I'm thinking of running my Rumble 40 into my 450 watt head...

 

[FenderB]

As @lz4005 says, it doesn't. It does change the path. Here is the difference:
going into the amp input:
Bass->pedals->preamp->power amp->speakers

using effects loop:
Bass->preamp->effects send->pedals->effects returm->power amp->speakers

The effects send is just an ouput from the preamp. The effects return is just an input into the power amp. You can chain amp together by send a signal from the effects send of one amp to the effects return of another. The preamp controls on the first amp controls both amps.

Gravedigger thanks for the visual, makes it so much easier to understand if I can see it.

 

[FenderB]

You wont hurt anything if it isn't enough juice. You will just notice that it's quiet or weak. Try and see.

I would poke around the pedal breeder threads and seek guidance there. Some effects work better in the loop, some before the preamp; some have instrument level inputs/ outputs, some line level. Some both.

I'll poke around there and see what I can find, thanks.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Just spit balling here, so in theory, I could use a tiny amp purely for the tone and a much more powerful one for the power? I'm thinking of running my Rumble 40 into my 450 watt head...

The 40 doesn't have effects send/return. You could use the line out jack (XLR) to your 450 head. I don't know the brand of your 450 nor what features it has. It could go to an effects return or a power amp in, or whatever on your amp goes straight to the power section.

 

[lizardking837]

The 40 doesn't have effects send/return. You could use the line out jack (XLR) to your 450 head. I don't know the brand of your 450 nor what features it has. It could go to an effects return or a power amp in, or whatever on your amp goes straight to the power section.

Sweet! Thanks for the help.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Typically the Effects Loop runs at line level while the pedals run at instrument level. You will have to try it and see if what you have is campatible with the loop.

 

[Slater]

Pedals like compression, envelope filters, distortion, and overdrive tend to work better going into the amp’s input. Modulation effects like chorus and flange etc., along with delay and reverb tend to work better in the loop. However, there are no rules, and it really comes down to personal preference through trial and error.