Using Send and Return for FX pedals.

[ad9000]

I tried running my pedalboard through the effects loop on my amp (GK Fusion 550). While there was a slightly more present quality due to the straight bass into amp input chain, the overall output level was reduced to the point that it was unusable. Also, the interaction of certain pedals (envelope, overdrive) was affected in kind of a strange way.

An effects loop that has send and return levels might work better, but I don’t currently own an amp that offers that feature. Since I have a true bypass strip on my pedalboard there isn’t much signal degradation anyway, so trying the effects loop was just an experiment out of curiosity more than anything else.

 

[agedhorse]

It does say so right on the unit because the Subway pre-DI loop is designed to operate at live level.

That said, there is enough make-up gain in the master section so these loops may work ok on many pedals in the pre's input gain is set lower (reducing the level at the send) and increasing the master volume level (increasing the sensitivity at the return). The drawback will be done increase in noise floor, which may or may not matter compared with the noise generated by the pedal.

There are quite a few pedals that do not have adequate input headroom and output level to work in a line level loop no matter what you do, I see this regularly enough that it needs to be understood.

 

[vvvmmm]

Me, I just don't wanna run 4 cables from my pedal board to the amp.

(I'm still waiting some one to bring up buffers vs. true bypass pedals within the FX loop. )

 

[NHM]

Yes, but unlike with a balanced signal from a DI into the balanced input on the mixer, using an unbalanced output has no way to break a ground loop should noise be present.

thanks


This is fine for effects that are used with a parallel loop, but many effects are designed for a serial loop (even many parallel effects units, which include their own onboard blend controls) but serial effects often do not work well due to polarity and phase differences due to the processing which can sound terrible when used in a parallel loop at the wet and dry paths are combined.

 

[pbass6811]

Not to argue at all. But that’s print on the back of a unit. There is no standardization in the industry. If I use an old Alesis Multiverb 19”, a Boss CE-2, and a Dan Electro Fab tone and a Fulltone, want to bet they don’t all have the same input and output levels? Some sound better in an effects loop some in front of the amps input. The effects loop in an integrated amp is often proprietary. Try to drive an industry power amp with that pre. Might be great might be meh. Whole amp works fine. Your unit is designed to work effectively just as you are using it. That’s why you have success. Integrated amps do not have equal specs manufacturer to manufacturer.

I was gonna say something about Andy, Mesa, and their reputation, but...

It does say so right on the unit because the Subway pre-DI loop is designed to operate at live level.

That said, there is enough make-up gain in the master section so these loops may work ok on many pedals in the pre's input gain is set lower (reducing the level at the send) and increasing the master volume level (increasing the sensitivity at the return). The drawback will be done increase in noise floor, which may or may not matter compared with the noise generated by the pedal.

There are quite a few pedals that do not have adequate input headroom and output level to work in a line level loop no matter what you do, I see this regularly enough that it needs to be understood.

...I had a feeling that Andy would be along and set the record straight.

Thanks, Andy!

 

[chadds]

Yours works because it’s supposed to. Andy mentioned why even it wouldn’t. The OP isn’t using your very nice piece! He’s trying another approach.
One we’ve done in the ‘80s.

I have a Glockenklang BAC that has a bass specific effects loop with level control and a high cut.

In my journey I stopped fooling around with messing with great bass tone and started using a separate small amp for effects only. I agree with the previous poster that said effects can sound one way in practice and different full on live with all your mates. My tone goals have always been absolute pure phat bass tone so take or leave my effects depending on the gig, session, group or tune. Like all things TB, life is subjective. (Well except expensive power cords.......)