Vacuum tubes are making a comeback.

[Charles Riggs]

It seems vacuum tubes have become like gasoline, I would think the amplifier companies would be smart to make their own vacuum tubes, that way the customers who use their products can find replacement tubes at the stores where they purchase the amplifiers. Hammond made their own tubes, who ells?
People forget, the vacuum tubes are something that gets used up as you use the amplifier, see them like little fuel tanks.
I remember when tube testing machines were in most of the drug stores, you could buy tubes their too. Vacuum tubes were part of every radio, phonograph, TV, even 1955 car radios used them. There were many different brands to choose from, creating a competitive market.
If there were more products that required vacuum tubes we would see more stores selling them. The Amplifier companies need to standardize all the tubes in the amplifiers, when one size fits all, there will be more demand for them, and more companies will be willing to manufacture them, thus keeping the prices down, and making them more affordable. But as of now, if you are trying to find tubes for an old radio, TV or organ, the tubes they are selling today were made years ago by companies no longer in business, so they too one day be gone. In our day we have witnessed extreme price gouging on those milk bottle size tubes for the old tombstone radios from the 1920s? This may have started when a set of tubes was sold at an auction for thousands years ago. Now we can pay up to $1,300.00 for two vacuum tubes? There is nothing on AM radio worth that much listening to, wont they be disappointed when it finally works again?
One day hopefully soon, There will be Vacuum tube vending machines at music stores, hardware stores, gas stations, liquor stores?
Thank you for listening, don’t forget to buy extra tubes.
Support the industry, your local US tube maker that is. Or ells?

 

[agedhorse]

First, Hammond didn’t make their own tubes, neither did ANY amp or musical instrument manufacturer.

Second, you are grossly underestimating the fixed cost of manufacturing vacuum tubes. To set up a new production line for a tube family like the 12A_7 with materials handling, tooling, glass works OC test lab, production machinery, building and permits would run probably around $10M. This has to be amortized over the life of the production. MI demand for these tubes is simply not high enough to justify that kind of investment. This is in addition to the cost of materials, overhead and labor for manufacturing the tubes.

Older style tubes are an even worse business model, the demand is hundreds of times too low to justify manufacturing.

 

[arbiterusa]

I’ll just add to agedhorse’s absolutely spot-on accurate post here that tube manufacturing is one of the most toxic, nasty, environmentally destructive processes in the world.

I think the last American tube plants closed in the late 80s. Certainly no later than the early 1990s.

 

[chris_b]

I don't see a comeback.

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century. There are still a few SS amps out there, doing good service, but D class is ruling the market.

 

[el murdoque]

It seems vacuum tubes have become like gasoline, I would think the amplifier companies would be smart to make their own vacuum tubes, that way the customers who use their products can find replacement tubes at the stores where they purchase the amplifiers. Hammond made their own tubes, who ells?
People forget, the vacuum tubes are something that gets used up as you use the amplifier, see them like little fuel tanks.
I remember when tube testing machines were in most of the drug stores, you could buy tubes their too. Vacuum tubes were part of every radio, phonograph, TV, even 1955 car radios used them. There were many different brands to choose from, creating a competitive market.
If there were more products that required vacuum tubes we would see more stores selling them. The Amplifier companies need to standardize all the tubes in the amplifiers, when one size fits all, there will be more demand for them, and more companies will be willing to manufacture them, thus keeping the prices down, and making them more affordable. But as of now, if you are trying to find tubes for an old radio, TV or organ, the tubes they are selling today were made years ago by companies no longer in business, so they too one day be gone. In our day we have witnessed extreme price gouging on those milk bottle size tubes for the old tombstone radios from the 1920s? This may have started when a set of tubes was sold at an auction for thousands years ago. Now we can pay up to $1,300.00 for two vacuum tubes? There is nothing on AM radio worth that much listening to, wont they be disappointed when it finally works again?
One day hopefully soon, There will be Vacuum tube vending machines at music stores, hardware stores, gas stations, liquor stores?
Thank you for listening, don’t forget to buy extra tubes.
Support the industry, your local US tube maker that is. Or ells?

I've read your post twice, but I failed to spot where you explain your reasons to believe that vacuum tubes are making a comeback.
The last time I checked, the direction tubes are heading is the way out. I think the Mesa Prodigy and Strategy have been the only two modern all tube bass amps with more than 150 watts to hit the market in over a decade - and both have been discontinued.

Tubes seem to be used in audiophile high end setups (where cost literally does not matter) and in guitar/bass amplifiers, but nowhere else these days. Both rather small markets that won't justify keeping many plants going, let alone compete for the best prices.

 

[Sparky Mark]

I don't see a comeback.

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century. There are still a few SS amps out there, doing good service, but D class is ruling the market.

Totally agree. However, class D is also Solid State.

 

[Marko 1]

Where are guitar players getting their tubes?

They seem to care far more than bass players about their tube amps.

 

[beans-on-toast]

As an aside, Western Electric and Bell created a company in Canada called Northern Electric to build telephone and audio equipment. Western Electric licensed their tube designs to Northern for 50 years. Eventually six companies, including General Electric and RCA, pooled their patients with them. They were a massive tube manufacturing facility that branded tubes under their own name as well as the others. Decentralized manufacturing was a big thing even way back in the early days of tubes.

WE built telephone equipment, switchboards, cables, audio amps, radios, same for everything TV, Hammond organs, and much more. I once owned a 1940’s Hammond organ manufactured by Northern Electric. They also made the tubes that were in the organ. Now, Northern Electric tubes are a brand made in China.

Some interesting radio history here.
Northern Electric Company – Canadian Vintage Radio Society

Northern Electric Radios

Northern Electric morphed into Bell Northern Research and Nortel.
Nortel - Wikipedia

 

[Killing Floor]

Curious who you are referring to when you say

Support the industry, your local US tube maker

I’m not aware of any US tube maker. Someone will say “Western Electric” but they don’t make anything used in guitar amps presently.

I know a lot of people on the guitar side and a few people on the bass side are excited that W.E. is considering producing 12AX7 domestically. Their only currently available tube product is 300B for audiophile. That’s selling at 4X any comparable import brand. Let’s assume the jumping in point for a 12AX7 would then be $100+ and that they won’t make power tubes or bias tubes or other related products. The market is so small, probably 1/10 the total size you think it is. That said, I’d be in line to try a couple for the novelty.

Tube amps are cool. As (also) a guitarist I still enjoy mine. But you’d have a tough time building a new industry around any kind of bass guitar amp, let alone one based on technology that has otherwise been irrelevant for well over 60 years.

Tube instrument amplification is a niche market as it is, bass tube amps is a minor subset of that niche.
Cool, but very slim.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century.

You havent seen a tube bass amp on stage in 20+ years? You must not get out much. Or only going to a very narrow range of shows. I saw two this week and I know I don’t get out much.

Class D is certainly dominating the market, but even there many manufacturers and designers - some of whom have commented here - are using tube preamp/hybrid designs. I don’t see a big tube manufacturing comeback, but as long as they’re being manufactured somewhere the demand on the amp side will still exist in the market at some level, however niche it may be.

 

[msb]

There are some that will never give up their tube amps. I can’t say that market is growing but it’s consistent. And today there are many tube driven preamps and some hybrid amps with tubes.
I believe Western Electric is making tubes in the US.

Western Electric - Maker of electron tubes and high fidelity

 

[ardgedee]

Tube instrument amplification is a niche market as it is, bass tube amps is a minor subset of that niche.
Cool, but very slim.

Even in home/mobile audio, tubed equipment is very rare. They tend to get more attention because of hype and current manufacturers' deliberately making them eye-catching, but I'd estimate there's maybe only one piece of tubed audio equipment built for every hundred thousand solid state items, since personal computers and mobile phones also serve as full-fledged personal audio systems. And, really, these days your average cellphone has much better audio specs than most of the best systems available 60 years ago, what I've seen called the golden age of the tube stereo.

 

[MCF]

I don't see a comeback.

Unless it was hired in for a festival, I've not seen a tube bass amp on a gig this century. There are still a few SS amps out there, doing good service, but D class is ruling the market.

I don’t know if he retired them yet, but McCartney used Mesa 400+ heads and Strategy power amps on his his tours, certainly within the last ten years. Nikki Monninger still tours with her SVTs. Just to name two.

Sure, things have changed re tube amp use and will continue to do so. But they are definitely still in use. And hybrid class D amps with tube driven preamps will continue to be popular so long as there are still the couple of factories left making them the tubes.

 

[JMarkD]

You're kidding, right?

 

[Geri O]

I’m sitting here wondering, did any of the respondents read the entire original post?

(Of course, they did, I’m being facetious to make a point….)

I read the OP a few times and I still made a *** thought at the end of nearly every sentence. 1955 car radios? Drug store tube testing (how could you have left out Radio Shack and the local electronics stores)? Musical amplifier makers making their own tubes??? And those makers building gear to “force” tube manufacturing back into existence? What is this, Field Of Dreams?

AM radio??? There’s hardly anyone using terrestrial radio of any kind these days.
And the best one yet….

“One day hopefully soon, There will be Vacuum tube vending machines at music stores, hardware stores, gas stations, liquor stores? “.

Oh, yeah, Sparky’s Wine and Spirits was the first place I thought of when I re-tubed my SVT several years ago!…..

Okay…I officially have no words….well, almost….

“Hey, the 20th century called, they want 1955 back”….

Okay, now I’m done….

 

[Killing Floor]

I don’t know if he retired them yet, but McCartney used Mesa 400+ heads and Strategy power amps on his his tours, certainly within the last ten years. Nikki Monninger still tours with her SVTs. Just to name two.

Sure, things have changed re tube amp use and will continue to do so. But they are definitely still in use. And hybrid class D amps with tube driven preamps will continue to be popular so long as there are still the couple of factories left making them the tubes.

Last time I saw Billy Shears aka “Paul” he had a guy. He isn’t maintaining or loading any of his gear according to several reliable sources. Not sure he counts. FWIW Vicky from Maneskin uses multiple SVT rigs. If you have a crew it’s not a concern at all.

 

[CryingBass]

Jack White found an old vinyl record plant and brought it back online with success.

Maybe someone can do the same with some mothballed tube plant out there?

 

[MCF]

Last time I saw Billy Shears aka “Paul” he had a guy. He isn’t maintaining or loading any of his gear according to several reliable sources. Not sure he counts. FWIW Vicky from Maneskin uses multiple SVT rigs. If you have a crew it’s not a concern at all.

Billy Talbot looked like was using a Bassman when I saw him a few years ago with Neil and Crazy Horse.

 

[Jefenator]

Meh - I'll just make my own.

 

[KidAmnesia]

Jack White found an old vinyl record plant and brought it back online with success.

Maybe someone can do the same with some mothballed tube plant out there?

Vinyl is quite cheaper and simpler to produce than tubes, and has a bigger market.

There's Western Electronics; they have been hypeing it up for years, but so far they only produce one tube model with an absurd price tag and no use at all in the guitar/bass amp market.