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Valveamp Bass from the ad up top ^

^^^ but \/ \/ \/

I'm not busting your chops or trying to be rude, but I think your post qualifies as speculation too, ishouldbeking.

And I don't see anyone basing Frudua's character on his grammar or spelling. Frudua has really spoken for himself and his company. He had a chance to exercise grace and integrity, and he has chosen otherwise. This is how he openly operates his company.

You're right, it is unfortunate that this happened. I would have much preferred to receive the guitar as advertised. Or for the company to help fix the indiscrepancy. I didn't want to jump through hoops and chase after Lorenzo. But I did. And the situation was revealed for the sake of full disclosure. And Frudua took his chance to fix it and instead argued himself into losing clientele.

Now, this situation isn't as much about whether the tuners are efficient (and they're not) or whether the distributor had anything to do with it... but how Frudua has chosen to argue instead of accommodate. If he continues to run his business in such a manner, this situation will not be an isolated incidence. And he's demonstrated that to his interested buyers. He'd rather win the argument than win over customers. He's definitely saved himself some euro but has likely cost himself a lot of dollars. But that's his prerogative.

I certainly didn't speculate about why Mike's deal fell through. Several others did before me. Saying things like "i bet THAT'S why the deal fell through, I knew these guys were shady" is speculating.

i AM speculating about the cause of the problem, which has been laid out pretty clearly by you in the emails you shared, Frudua himself despite not always communicating at an international gold standard (if you can honestly read all of his comments and somehow be unaware of the language barrier at play here, I mean, c'mon) explained the same thing, and Mike in his email says the same thing. He was clearing these out because he only distributed them for a month or two. You bought an old stock guitar from a distributor who quickly jumped ship.

What seems (when i say "seems" that's acknowledging that I'm speculating, see? but in this case i'm doing so based on the evidence all three of you have been happy to provide) to be at the heart of the issue here, is that Mike's website was using parts of the Frudua and Exlusive sites to advertise his products. When this thread first started up, I immediately checked out the valveampusa site to see what the deal is. From all that i can tell, that's Mike's website, not Frudua's. The information seemed to overlap quite a bit, but going to Frudua's actual site brought up his Italian made instruments (IIRC, this was months ago and no i'm not rereading this whole thread to illustrate my point). What made me not want to order one of the basses, was the fact that the "storefront" page on Mike's page had no information whatsoever about the instruments. We knew from the posts on here that several key features were being upgraded on the basses. Yet the storefront had only item names, and nothing else. That to me was enough to steer me away, figuring hey, I'll wait til they get a proper store to purchase from.

So now, when an item was bought from this storefront, that turns out to not be what you thought you were getting because that store never carried the new item, even though THAT STORE was using the newer advertising from the manufacturer's webiste, doesn't it make sense that it'd be the STORE to resolve the issue? I can understand why the manufacturer would be put off if you're being pushy about something that's not really their fault.

An example from a different industry: say you go to best buy to buy a Playstation 3. Now they advertise the playstation 3 you're gonna get is the newest, slimmed down version with the latest processor, etc. Say you order this from their website, and when you receive it, what the hell... they sent you the first version, its still a playstation 3, but its not the slim one, the hard drive is smaller. what the hell, right? Some mope in the factory clearly gave you some new old-stock. Now, would you go to Sony to resolve this for you or Best Buy?

I get that you're mad, i would be too. Really sucks your friend's gift got messed up. But I understand the confusion on Frudua's part too if this is indeed how it went down.
 
It also seems like Mike knew it was the case because he offered you the money to buy locking tuners. He sold you a product that wasn't what you thought it was going to be, and then offered to rectify it. You instead went after the manufacturer.

That's how it looks from here, sorry.
 
Ok by the way how does the guitar sound while we are here?

It sounds great. Aside from the tremolo issues and the volume knob, it plays great too. My guitarist loves it. He was using a Les Paul but had been looking for a tighter, more focused sound. I saw the Eruption and knew it was perfect for him. He hasn't touched his Les Paul since he got it. :bassist: I wasn't sure about the low-output pickup, so I was looking into the Seymour Duncan JB's (which Omar Rodriquez Lopez of Mars Volta uses - a major influence on my guitarist). But when he started playing, it sounded great as is. And I much prefer its sound to the Les Paul in a mix. So now he has a more unique guitar and a more unique sound. With your tip on the tremolo and the Frudua tuners, it'll be just about perfect.

I certainly didn't speculate about why Mike's deal fell through. Several others did before me. Saying things like "i bet THAT'S why the deal fell through, I knew these guys were shady" is speculating.

i AM speculating about the cause of the problem, which has been laid out pretty clearly by you in the emails you shared, Frudua himself despite not always communicating at an international gold standard (if you can honestly read all of his comments and somehow be unaware of the language barrier at play here, I mean, c'mon) explained the same thing, and Mike in his email says the same thing. He was clearing these out because he only distributed them for a month or two. You bought an old stock guitar from a distributor who quickly jumped ship.

What seems (when i say "seems" that's acknowledging that I'm speculating, see? but in this case i'm doing so based on the evidence all three of you have been happy to provide) to be at the heart of the issue here, is that Mike's website was using parts of the Frudua and Exlusive sites to advertise his products. When this thread first started up, I immediately checked out the valveampusa site to see what the deal is. From all that i can tell, that's Mike's website, not Frudua's. The information seemed to overlap quite a bit, but going to Frudua's actual site brought up his Italian made instruments (IIRC, this was months ago and no i'm not rereading this whole thread to illustrate my point). What made me not want to order one of the basses, was the fact that the "storefront" page on Mike's page had no information whatsoever about the instruments. We knew from the posts on here that several key features were being upgraded on the basses. Yet the storefront had only item names, and nothing else. That to me was enough to steer me away, figuring hey, I'll wait til they get a proper store to purchase from.

So now, when an item was bought from this storefront, that turns out to not be what you thought you were getting because that store never carried the new item, even though THAT STORE was using the newer advertising from the manufacturer's webiste, doesn't it make sense that it'd be the STORE to resolve the issue? I can understand why the manufacturer would be put off if you're being pushy about something that's not really their fault.

An example from a different industry: say you go to best buy to buy a Playstation 3. Now they advertise the playstation 3 you're gonna get is the newest, slimmed down version with the latest processor, etc. Say you order this from their website, and when you receive it, what the hell... they sent you the first version, its still a playstation 3, but its not the slim one, the hard drive is smaller. what the hell, right? Some mope in the factory clearly gave you some new old-stock. Now, would you go to Sony to resolve this for you or Best Buy?

I get that you're mad, i would be too. Really sucks your friend's gift got messed up. But I understand the confusion on Frudua's part too if this is indeed how it went down.
I get what you're trying to say. But the point of "who's fault is the mix-up" got dissolved in the "customer care" discussion, at least it seemed like it to me. (Like when we started referring to the pyrrhic victory.) But I agree, this isn't the workings of one single person, and the poor situation was due largely to happenstance, language barriers, and factors from all sides (persons) of the equation.

But are you confusing Mike's site with the regular Exlusive site? Valveampusa only had links to the Exlusive/Tuscany pages IIRC, and those were run by Frudua. Frudua's personal luthier site (the Italian one) was something different. It hadn't been updated and was in process of an overhaul. Maybe I'm just mis-remembering though.

And your PS3 analogy isn't very accurate to me. The difference is that Sony is a huge mega-corporation, as is Best Buy. If Best Buy were a single-man operation run by Sony (also an operation of only a couple of guys) and selling only Sony products, that'd be different. I'd probably contact both parties, as I had in the real-life scenario. Your analogy would IMHO be more comparable to Fender and Guitar Center, both large operations. Guitar Center sells many Fender parts. But as I mentioned earlier, I actually contacted Fender about a missing part, and they sent it directly to me. But I see where you were heading with the idea.

It also seems like Mike knew it was the case because he offered you the money to buy locking tuners. He sold you a product that wasn't what you thought it was going to be, and then offered to rectify it. You instead went after the manufacturer.

That's how it looks from here, sorry.
From here it looks like that's the exact kind of speculation you mentioned in your last post though. ;)
 
you bought the guitar from Mike
based on the production description
Mike linked the product description to his product page from a site he doesn't run
Mike offered to rectify the issue that he created
but you went to Frudua instead

ishouldeking just said all of that. But I find it interesting that you're trying to separate the distributor and the manufacturer as if they had nothing to do with each other. They were working together. Do you understand that? (See my analogy above.) There was still some miscommunication, but it's not like one of them was operating independently of the other... This was a joint operation. Anyway, the "who's fault is this" issue was exhausted some time ago, but you can continue to harp on it all you want, especially since the problem is already fixed. (And since that wasn't really the main problem anyway.) The truth came out, the errors were found and corrected, lessons were learned, and the past will remain behind us. So feel free to repeat stuff until you're blue in the face, because it's helping a lot. :rolleyes:

Actually, I don't see why any of us should continue to bring the situation up. It's finished. Now, you're just trolling. Like I said, many things contributed to the problem, and it seems that we've figured out how to prevent this in the future. So let sleeping dogs lie. I doubt this situation will happen again (but if it does, that would be an appropriate time to mention this situation). If you're really going to be supportive of this company that you've readily defended (possibly without understanding the situation), then it'd be in your best interest to let it go. Everyone is done with it. Problem solved. Solutions reached.

Like I said: The issue is fixed, and the situation is behind us. Instead of blindly trying to defend the company without having been involved in the experience at all, why don't you just be positive and supporting? Let them redeem themselves without having someone bring up problems that they've already solved. Are you willing to move on? Because I think everyone else is.
 
word

/thread

well... no, the thread shouldn't close here. the whole point of the thread was to discuss and promote these basses. instead it devolved into a customer service debacle over a really bizarre situation where a distributer was leaving the manufacturer and a customer happened to get caught in the crossfire. crap situation, totally. but the reason i kept harping was because a lot of people immediately began slamming Frudua... and to me it didn't seem fair. all sorts of posts where people are talking about how they'll "never give money to these guys now", seemed to be really over the top and not even justified since the situation didn't get fully explained until all the emails were shown. the fact is, this whole confusion / airing-of-dirty-laundry probably will hurt bassiklee's upcoming business venture more than Frudua's company, and this ENTIRE THING seemed unncessary. and with people chiming in to say things like "i don't know what infos you're talking about" and making fun of Frudua's comments because he had language related typos, the whole thing started to reek of xenophobia, and personally i found it all a bit offensive.

I've seen what happens in Certainbass threads, where a few people antagonize a manufacturer, and when that party get frustrated trying to defend themselves, a lot of TB'ers jump onboard because the party isn't nearly as good at online communication and are generally new to the board. And while that's a different situation, it still disgusts me that so many on this board will happily jump on board the troll-train and bash away... and I really didn't want to see that happen here, as from the very beginning Frudua has been trying to be helpful with sharing information, and the instruments SEEM (speculation, yes?) like he's really listened to what players want and like. Even while this episode unfolded, it's obvious he was TRYING to make things right, even if he didn't know exactly what he should do to make things right in front of the all-seeing-eye of the internet elite. Watching that all spiral down a hole of miscommunication aided by overeager bashers seemed really unfortunate.

All I'm trying to say here: a lot of damage has been done. If the point of this thread was to promote and discuss these basses enthusiastically, let's try to do that and move forward, yes?
 
I've seen what happens in Certainbass threads, where a few people antagonize a manufacturer, and when that party get frustrated trying to defend themselves, a lot of TB'ers jump onboard because the party isn't nearly as good at online communication and are generally new to the board. And while that's a different situation, it still disgusts me that so many on this board will happily jump on board the troll-train and bash away...

I just had to comment here: You should have seen the insulting PMs David Certain sent me in response to an innocent question I asked just for clarification. I would have posted his reply but the thread had already been closed and he got banned. Certain deserves what he gets. Frudua doesn't seem like a bad guy and, as others have mentioned, the language barrier is a large part of the problem. Anyway, I'm glad to see that the situation has been resolved.
 
well... no, the thread shouldn't close here. the whole point of the thread was to discuss and promote these basses. instead it devolved into a customer service debacle over a really bizarre situation where a distributer was leaving the manufacturer and a customer happened to get caught in the crossfire. crap situation, totally. but the reason i kept harping was because a lot of people immediately began slamming Frudua... and to me it didn't seem fair. all sorts of posts where people are talking about how they'll "never give money to these guys now", seemed to be really over the top and not even justified since the situation didn't get fully explained until all the emails were shown. the fact is, this whole confusion / airing-of-dirty-laundry probably will hurt bassiklee's upcoming business venture more than Frudua's company, and this ENTIRE THING seemed unncessary. and with people chiming in to say things like "i don't know what infos you're talking about" and making fun of Frudua's comments because he had language related typos, the whole thing started to reek of xenophobia, and personally i found it all a bit offensive.

I've seen what happens in Certainbass threads, where a few people antagonize a manufacturer, and when that party get frustrated trying to defend themselves, a lot of TB'ers jump onboard because the party isn't nearly as good at online communication and are generally new to the board. And while that's a different situation, it still disgusts me that so many on this board will happily jump on board the troll-train and bash away... and I really didn't want to see that happen here, as from the very beginning Frudua has been trying to be helpful with sharing information, and the instruments SEEM (speculation, yes?) like he's really listened to what players want and like. Even while this episode unfolded, it's obvious he was TRYING to make things right, even if he didn't know exactly what he should do to make things right in front of the all-seeing-eye of the internet elite. Watching that all spiral down a hole of miscommunication aided by overeager bashers seemed really unfortunate.

All I'm trying to say here: a lot of damage has been done. If the point of this thread was to promote and discuss these basses enthusiastically, let's try to do that and move forward, yes?
I think he was referring more to a close of the discussion, not of the entire thread. And again to clarify, I posted not to deter but to inform.
 
Just for the record, Certain has said some pretty abusive things to me as well, when all I did was try to tell him his bad attitude was doing more harm than good for his business. Downward spiral there, and he makes his own bed--I honestly think there were more people sincerely reacting to his outrageous comments, and the obvious lies he tried to perpetrate earlier in his bass-building career, than there were just piling on for no reason.

However that's not the same as the situation here with Frudua, so --as you say-- onward and upward! Here's hoping the next distributor(s) maintain a clearer line of communication between themselves, the manufacturer, and the customer; and that the new distributor(s) create their own web and print advertising, with details specific to their actual stock in hand, rather than just linking to the Frudua website. :)
 
I think he was referring more to a close of the discussion, not of the entire thread. And again to clarify, I posted not to deter but to inform.

nail on the head there Spanky. i was just agreeing with what you said that the smoke has cleared, the issue has been resolved between you and Frudua and henceforth everyone else should put their .02 back in their pocket on the matter no matter whos side of the fence they were on. I know why the thread was created...I CREATED IT! it spiraled into something it was never meant to be for about 3 pages and at this point its moot for anyone elses chip shots at eachother. just a call for a rerail to get this thread on course again.

now everyone shut up and be happy :D:D:D:D

and no more winky emoticons!
 
I wasn't sure about the low-output pickup, so I was looking into the Seymour Duncan JB's (which Omar Rodriquez Lopez of Mars Volta uses - a major influence on my guitarist). But when he started playing, it sounded great as is. And I much prefer its sound to the Les Paul in a mix. So now he has a more unique guitar and a more unique sound. With your tip on the tremolo and the Frudua tuners, it'll be just about perfect.

OK Thanks. You can of course change the pickup but before you spend money you could IMO try different hight setup of the pickup.

Minimum changes in pickups' height affects tone sensibly as I recently explained in a video on the bass low B string. The higher the pickup, the fatter and higher the level of tone and more brightness and viceversa.

Also if you get too close to the string you will reduce sustain but on the Eruption, due to the specific placement of the pickup this is almost not a problem.

For those of you interested I am almost over with the new Frudua portal which will include a sort of guitar encylopedia with tons never before seen stuff on setup/construction including this kind of setup/videos/tricks and also a very interesting section on woods including how to tap them to fine tune the tone of our instruments.

For now it will be in italian but later on I will translate this in english (maybe someone can help me correct it).

No bother bro!


I'd actually like to hear Fruduas take on that, should be a simple neck swap...

We are considering this. In the meanwhile we offer this on the GFJ bass.
 
and making fun of Frudua's comments because he had language related typos

In fact I questioned myself a lot on my "Borat" pronunciation and my english errors.

I simply said myself "If someone teach me how to setup a Floyd Rose in two minutes allowing me to spare 50 euros of setup and string change, would I care if his english is not perfect since I understand him?"

I thought the answer was NO.

And if it is also funny that's a plus!
 
A quick photoshp, but tell me that this ain't awesome....

SuperBMaple.jpg