venue refusing to sign a contract?

[Factor88]

Clubs don't sign contracts with bands because they are either unprofessional in business practices or because they want to keep the ability on the table of bouncing you if things come up.

I 've played hundreds of clubs on the East coast over the past 3 decades, rarely with a contract, and what you are saying is simply not true in my experience. The majority of the bars/clubs I have played have been around and successful for years (IMO making them "professional") and very few of them had the habit of cancelling bands last minute without really good reason, and even that was VERY rare.

There is no way I have the data to back this up, but I am convinced the amount of money (and in-kind payments like drinks, food, etc that Jive is talking about above) I have lost because of not having a contract in place is not nearly close to the amount of income I would have given up by refusing to do gigs unless there was a contract. If you are a function/resort/casino band, contracts are a normal part of the deal; but if you are going to make the majority of musical income playing bars and clubs, you'll be cutting your own throat to take the "no contract no play" approach. I do find the "no contract, no 1099" approach interesting, but again in my experience NO bar/club that I worked without contracts ever sent a 1099 to the band/musicians anyway, so I'm not sure what you gain by that approach.

 

[bassbully]

The point I was trying to make is that the only area clubs seem to not 'do' contracts in writing is for bands.

There always is a Contract; an agreement between parties about who will give what to each other. Verbal, email, written; whatever format.

Ok gottya ..agree. Email, verbal works.

 

[longfinger]

This thread was not really about clubs and contracts in a general sense, but about the OP's contract that he linked to in the 1st posts.

Here it is...
Customer: Location: Date: Time: Band Obligations - Soulphonic (Here - Pastebin.com


Like some others have said here, if you read that contract, it is very one sided. The venue has all the risks, the band has no real risks. Why would an owner sign that? Would you sign it if you were an owner? The club has "failure to comply" punishments, but the band has zero "failure to comply" punishments.

How would you guys like it if your lead singer gave that contract to you and asked you to sign it if you wanted him/her in the band? According to that contract, said singer could walk in during soundcheck the night of the show, look at the PA and say to the band leader, "Sorry this does not meet my article 12 needs, I'm leaving. You still need to pay me though, read article 18 and 20. Also it's also not my job to find you a last minute sub." And then he/she is gone, and the show is about to start. Would you want that singer in your band as your on stage lead? Would you sign that contract? What if all your musicians demanded such a contract?

To me...

Article 12 is unnecessary. Scope the place out first. If the conditions are there, they are there. If they are not there now, then they won't be there at gig time. Adapt as needed.

Article 18 needs to be changed. If the gig is indoors, the weather stuff is irrelevant. Since the venue has been scoped out in advance, and action taken to make the best of what's there, the "insufficient" stuff is not needed. Sickness and emergencies of band members are not the club's problem. This contract has to bind the band to playing that show. Even if you have to sub out all 10 members of the band, you will find subs at no extra involvement, concern or hassle to the club. They don't have to worry about a thing.

Article 20 is also one sided. To be fair, it should be changed to include what penalties will happen if the band "fails to comply" with the terms of the contract. Who wants to go there? Best to simply remove it.

If the contract gives the club owner a sense of security that the entertainment for that night will really happen and he has nothing at all to worry about, then he will be willing to sign it. What's good about a paper trail for him, is that he can claim an expense for that night and have a paper to prove it come tax time. However, he does not want a contract that exposes him to abuse from a flaky band or a band leader with ill intent.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Clubs don't do contracts = BS. Think they have a verbal agreement with the power company? Their beer supplier? Landlord? Staff? Etc.

Personally, I'd just check with a couple bands who've played there before & see what these folk are like to do business with. If they would do business with them again, I'd trust the booker.

Most bars don't have alternative power companies, beer suppliers, or landlords lining up, ready to undercut & backstab each other to steal their gigs. Entertainment is a whole 'nother story.

I'd like to meet the bar employee who has a contract (except a union shop, where they're covered by a blanket contract that the employee has probably never seen). An offer letter, maybe, but still rare.

(Written) contract or not, getting references from other bands is a good idea.

Any agency bookings will involve a contract, make no mistake about it. Actually, it will involve at least 2: Between the band & the agent to define their relationship, & between the agent & the venue for the gig (which is the agent's responsibility & business).

 

[steveksux]

*gigglesnort*

And when it comes to recouping he's going to be in line for payment after at least a dozen companies they owe money to and employees that are looking to get paid for what they worked.

The contracts aren't magic here in Michigan either... you'd have to a) take them to court b) win and then c) collect.

Moving from a to b to c becomes progressively less likely...

The only thing that is foolproof is making the bar owner want you back. They'll never screw you if they want you back.

Otherwise, contract or no...

Randy

 

[Charlzm]

Contracts for clubs is rare.

Come out to LA and deal with pay-to-play. You'll be signing contracts weekly.

 

[Tat2dHeart]

I did a gig with this guy as an opening act for the 70's rock act Head East.

Head East comes from my neck of the woods and used to play regularly at a club where I tended bar. Small world.

 

[Keithwah]

Head East comes from my neck of the woods and used to play regularly at a club where I tended bar. Small world.

So you're from Champaign-Urbana area then? I grew up there and played the scene pretty heavy in the 70's & 80's. Good guys, no matter what version of the band was there. I think I opened for practically every lineup from the 1st album version to the 1988 to 90 version.

And yes, those boys could knock them back and I also had the pleasure of doing so with them. I know you knocked a few back with them, because I've never known them to drink alone.

I always wished John Schlitt would have come back to rock and roll at some point. But I try to at least get out and say hi to Roger Boyd every year they hit the fest circuit up here. Several great bassists in that band from Dan Birney to Kurt Hansen. But when Sommerville wasn't playing guitar, it really just wasn't Head East. I did a show with them when country artist Ricky Lynn Greg was splitting lead duties with Starcastle's Matt Stewart. Kind of a weird paring but they sounded great, just not like Head East.