Verellen Kalaloch (speaker cable) problem (gets hot !!)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Godcreep, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Hi all,

    Whenever I use my Verellen Kalaloch with my Ampeg 810 cab (Heritage) (4 ohm), my speakercable gets really really hot !! Really to the point you can't hold the jacks. Now, maybe it's normal it gets warm because -as you guys know- the Kalaloch is 700 Watt-beast (or 1400 Watt), but I'm sure it's not normal it gets this hot.

    I'm using the Klotz SC3PP01SW jack 2p - jack 2p cable. (Klotz SC3PP01SW jack 2p - jack 2p 1 meter speakerkabel kopen?) (I have 2 of those).

    During one of my last gigs my Verellen suddenly stopped working, apparently it was my Klotz cable that screwed up.

    Who else is using a Verellen Kalaloch and has the same problem...? Which speaker cable (heavier gauge I guess) do you guys use or should I use? I'm also gonna measure the impedance of my Ampeg 810 cab, but I would be very surprised that's the cause as it's a brand new one.

    Thanx !
     
  2. mmbongo

    mmbongo I have too many basses. Supporting Member

    That seems to be a quality cable, but have you tried a different cable?

    Does your amp and cab have Speakon jacks or only 1/4"?

    How hot does your amp get? If your amp gets scalding hot, and the frame is metal, and the jack is metal, maybe it's transferring all that heat to the cable. That's just me reaching for something there though.
     
    mbelue likes this.
  3. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    You problem lies in the fact that you are using a connector that is way over it’s original design specification. A 1/4” Phone plug should not be used much over 200W. You need to use SpeakOns with 16 gauge wire or better to carry the power you are using. If you are running in Bridge mode you must use SpeakOns for your safety and that of your equipment.

    If your equipment does not have SpeakOns I suggest you have them fitted.
     
  4. Thanx for your replies. The Verellen has no speakon connection I'm afraid.
    At first sight the amp itself is getting warm but not as 'hot' as the speakercable. I'll try another cable and maybe I should consider installing speakons. (No idea if this is expensive?)
     
  5. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    I’m actually amazed that a modern amp of that power rating does not have SpeakOns. In truth it was my understanding that all amplifiers so rated needed to have SpeakOns in order for them to be imported into Europe.
     
    rodl2005, Mosfed, MattZilla and 2 others like this.
  6. RoadRanger

    RoadRanger Supporting Member

    Feb 18, 2004
    NE CT
    I believe the EU law is that all amps that do not have one side of the speaker output connected to the safety ground must have a SpeakOn. Most all the class D modules are bridged so can't use 1/4".
     
  7. BassikBrad

    BassikBrad Bass Face Brad Supporting Member

    Mar 28, 2018
    New Mexico
    Get speakons & 14 gauge wire, big difference. The current generated on peaks is substantial.
     
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  8. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    If the cable or connectors are getting hot, something is going on not related to wire gauge. Even 18 gauge wire will not get hot under these conditions.

    I would change cable type because my suspicion is that the amp is oscillating. This can be fatal to amps. There are some "esoteric" cables that present an illegal load to an amp. If the amp is susceptible to instability, oscillation can result. You are not likely to hear it because it will be way above audible frequencies.
     
  9. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    "V=IR: it's not just a good idea, it's the law!"
     
  10. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    It's the "reactionary" aspects of the law that will bite you in the ass.
     
  11. I also wonder why there aren't any speakons on that amp...so, installing those speakon connections to the Verellen amp, is that an expensive 'intervention' or not ? Any idea ? Seems to me the best solution at the moment...?
     
  12. arbitrary

    arbitrary Supporting Member

    Oct 24, 2005
    Boston, MA
    I've known quite a few people who have had issues with their kallaoch
     
  13. Raf Seibert

    Raf Seibert

    Dec 16, 2013
    Texas
    Two points: first, it shouldn’t cost more than €100 to have Speakon fitted, and that’s cheap protection. Secondly, Agedhorse and others have suggested that something else is wrong with your amp. You need to have a tech look at it.
     
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  14. anderbass

    anderbass

    Dec 20, 2005
    Phoenix. Az.
    Maybe you were sent guitar cords by mistake...
    Have you already unscrewed the ends of those speaker cables to take a look inside?

    Speaker cables will have 2 individual wires inside, guitar cord will look similar to this pic:
    100-297_HR_0.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  15. MarkA

    MarkA In the doghouse. Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    Andy, could you elaborate upon what you mean by "esoteric"? Are we talking a simple two-conductor cable or something else? And "illegal load" -- a dip in impedance?
     
  16. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    What's your line voltage?
    What line voltage is the amp configured for?

    Even though the 1/4" connectors may not be the issue here, I think it's poor engineering to have 1/4" instead of Speakons at that power level of head.

    IMO, there's simply no good reason for any head or cab designed today not to use Speakon connectors. It's time folks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    rodl2005 and mbelue like this.
  17. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    There are some speaker cables, often marketed as "unique", "high tech", "audiophile", or "special" that have unusual construction elements that add inductance and/or capacitance in large enough amounts as to interact with the amp's stability.

    Illegal load is a load that contains some element (reactive or resistive) that fall outside the range of what the amp was designed to drive.

    It's also possible that there is an issue with the amp itself, that's why I think it would be a good idea for a (real) tech to investigate this.
     
    bobyoung53 and BadExample like this.
  18. mbelue

    mbelue

    Dec 11, 2010
    Who can the OP trust for this?
    The manufacturer doesn't believe the amp needs Speakon connectors.
    I'm not sure I would value their opinion.
     
    Sixgunn likes this.
  19. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
    While my own belief is that all amps should contain SpeakOn connections, I don't think thisvit the cause of the problems.
     
    Al Kraft, bobyoung53 and /\/\3phist0 like this.
  20. 40Hz

    40Hz Supporting Member

    May 24, 2006
    home
    This. Had a friend with an amp that started running what I considered dangerously hot. When he finally got nervous enough to get it checked out by a pro they found there was some failing component (never heard what the specifics were) that was causing it to oscillate. It wasn’t that expensive to fix. Tech told him that letting it go as long as he did was a really good way to drastically shorten the life expectancy of his amp