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vintage = good? why ?

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crusie

crusie

Oct 19, 2009
316
10
43
Djursland, Denmark
#1
I've been looking around on this forum and other places - no matter where I go some people tend to think that the only "right" sound for a bass is how it sounded in the 60's. I mean a 62 fender p is almost impossible to get a hold of.

Now, what I really don't get is, why on earth do people crave that sound ? to me it sounds awful.

I know this isn't a fender, it's a mustang.



at least the first 2 minutes ^^

all are examples of tones I find way more interesthing that the thud I get from old dusty bass companies that hasn't evolved for almost half a century.

I know many of you guys are thinking somewhere along the lines "why fix something that isn't broken" - I'm not saying broken - I'm saying there's room for improvement - and I'd be damned if the technology for refining what we had in the 60's isn't here already.

just my 2 cent - if you disagree - please try to explain yourself - this isn't as much a rant as it's a general wondering, and if I come off strong on some parts it's mainly because english isn't my native tounge, thus I don't know all the sublte expressions you guys have as some sort of internal secret! :P

:bassist: <--- he plays a NEW bass, not some old crap from back when monochrome television was something you dreamt of when standing outside the store. - that's right - imagine how far that has evolved, and yet we still prefer "vintage" sound with pickups made the "right" way.

it's like saying no to the mere thought of evolution
 
#2
examples of tones I find way more interesthing
Click to expand...

Personal opinion. It is neither "right" nor "wrong". It is merely a persons opinion.

What sounds good to me may not sound good to you...and vice versa.

(BTW - this thread happens 3-5 times a week on average, so a "search" will get you more than enough information...and arguments )
 
#4
1075479-well_that_s_just_like_your_opinion_man_super.jpg
 
#5
Dark Horse said:
Personal opinion. It is neither "right" nor "wrong". It is merely a persons opinion.

What sounds good to me may not sound good to you...and vice versa.

(BTW - this thread happens 3-5 times a week on average, so a "search" will get you more than enough information...and arguments )
Click to expand...

ok first off, if your opnion differs from mine, would you care to explain what you find fantastic about that vintage tone then ? because I don't get it.

I'm sorry I started a topic that has been covered before, but I'm looking for answers, not trying to start a bashwar.
 
#6
Dark Horse said:
Personal opinion. It is neither "right" nor "wrong". It is merely a persons opinion.

What sounds good to me may not sound good to you...and vice versa.
Click to expand...

+100. If there was a "right" or "wrong" there would only be one bass and one rig.

...and then, what topics would everybody on Talkbass have to get frothed up about? :D
 
#9
crusie said:
ok first off, if your opnion differs from mine, would you care to explain what you find fantastic about that vintage tone then ? because I don't get it.
Click to expand...

The sound I get from my Fender and Fender style basses is the sound that "I" like to hear. Nothing more, nothing less. It sits well in a mix, whether recording or live, they have "feel" that I prefer, as well as a "look" that I prefer.

Quantifying an "opinion" in an attempt to sway someone who has a differing opinion is almost always an exercise in futility.

No matter what "I" say, it won't make you change "your" mind regarding the sound of vintage Fenders. Just like regardless of what "you" say, it won't make "me" change my mind about my preferences.

I'm sorry I started a topic that has been covered before, but I'm looking for answers, not trying to start a bashwar.
Click to expand...

The problem is that this subject NEARLY ALWAYS starts a "bashwar". People can't accept that someone may indeed have a differing opinion, and that neither persons opinion is the "correct" or "wrong" one...only the correct (or wrong) one for them personally.

:)
 
#10
Depends on the group you are playing in as well...for instance a ken smith may sound great in a tight neo jazz group but if you are talking gritty indie rock...a b pass with some growl and clank is the right fit. Its all just a personal preference...for instance I love the tone of my active g and l but the biggest compliments on tone i have gotten are from my p bass, thats not neccessarily coming from another bassist but rather just the listening public.
 
#11
Dark Horse said:
The sound I get from my Fender and Fender style basses is the sound that "I" like to hear. Nothing more, nothing less. It sits well in a mix, whether recording or live, they have "feel" that I prefer, as well as a "look" that I prefer.

Quantifying an "opinion" in an attempt to sway someone who has a differing opinion is almost always an exercise in futility.

No matter what "I" say, it won't make you change "your" mind regarding the sound of vintage Fenders. Just like regardless of what "you" say, it won't make "me" change my mind about my preferences.
Click to expand...

now this I can use for something - look and feel, although looks are subjective I understand what you mean, and I know how it feels to pick up a bass that's just right where it should be, "feel"wise.

as for sound it's just as subjective as looks, but if all a bass should do is "sit well in the mix" I guess it comes down to the sound guy, and not the bass.
 
#12
different tones for different genre's, from the links you put, I'd say you prefer a slightly more...clacky tone as it were, or more middy, or growly,i don't know how to put a finger on the sound but personally i could see the tone from The Pretty Things, would fit in with Dizzy Mizz Lizzy, though it doesn't have the highs vocalised as you seem to prefer, that's how I view it personally, may not be your view but yeah.
 
#13
This thread is a rolling and a trolling right from the start! Come on Cruise! What's the problem friend? What vintage tone means to most other players, including old guys like me, is a lot wider than your extremely narrow definition. There were a lot of great bass players, each defining their own style and sound ever since electric bass started to gain begrudging acceptance at first, from musicians, and the recording industry back in the 50's.

It's also an older generation of bass players going back to the 70's that started asking for active electronics and extended range instruments well before a lot of current TB members were even born! We also thought a lot about bi-amping and tri-amping to create full range amplification rigs too! I still love a good P-or J Bass as my first choices, and 'boy howdy' I can do more than just 'the thud' on them. This thread gave me my laugh for the day.
 
#14
crusie said:
now this I can use for something - look and feel, although looks are subjective I understand what you mean, and I know how it feels to pick up a bass that's just right where it should be, "feel"wise.

as for sound it's just as subjective as looks, but if all a bass should do is "sit well in the mix" I guess it comes down to the sound guy, and not the bass.
Click to expand...

Not all bass should sit in the mix it depends on what style of music. For rock,country,pop it should be in the mix not stand out,for jazz you would want something that pops out. It's all on the music. And P basses don't really need a sound man to sit in the mix,they do it on their own.
 
#16
Aside from the issue of "tone" - -

there *is*, no doubt, a bit of a "cult of vintage" in the industry now... Folks are now venerating basses and amps that we all thought were absolute *crap* back in the day. Sears Silvertone amps are now considered "good"??? Madness.

Old does not always mean good (heck, just look at me!). I am convinced that basses made by top builders today are orders of magnitude better than the best basses made in the '60s. It's just a matter of production technology and improved electronics.

That said, years ago I knew a guy who had worked at Fender who was the first one who suggested this theory to me: The reason old Fenders (as in Pre-CBS) are so cool is that all the poorly made ones have been 'weeded out' of the market (modified, destroyed, worn out) and only the ones that were good to begin with remain... Something to think about, I suppose.
 
#17
BigOldHarry said:
Aside from the issue of "tone" - -

there *is*, no doubt, a bit of a "cult of vintage" in the industry now... Folks are now venerating basses and amps that we all thought were absolute *crap* back in the day. Sears Silvertone amps are now considered "good"??? Madness.

Old does not always mean good (heck, just look at me!). I am convinced that basses made by top builders today are orders of magnitude better than the best basses made in the '60s. It's just a matter of production technology and improved electronics.

That said, years ago I knew a guy who had worked at Fender who was the first one who suggested this theory to me: The reason old Fenders (as in Pre-CBS) are so cool is that all the poorly made ones have been 'weeded out' of the market (modified, destroyed, worn out) and only the ones that were good to begin with remain... Something to think about, I suppose.
Click to expand...

To what extent did the quite sudden advent of the Seattle grunge sound save Fender's bacon? I've wondered this from time to time.
 
#18
BigOldHarry said:
Aside from the issue of "tone" - -

there *is*, no doubt, a bit of a "cult of vintage" in the industry now... Folks are now venerating basses and amps that we all thought were absolute *crap* back in the day. Sears Silvertone amps are now considered "good"??? Madness.

Old does not always mean good (heck, just look at me!). I am convinced that basses made by top builders today are orders of magnitude better than the best basses made in the '60s. It's just a matter of production technology and improved electronics.

That said, years ago I knew a guy who had worked at Fender who was the first one who suggested this theory to me: The reason old Fenders (as in Pre-CBS) are so cool is that all the poorly made ones have been 'weeded out' of the market (modified, destroyed, worn out) and only the ones that were good to begin with remain... Something to think about, I suppose.
Click to expand...

I didn't know sears amps were considered good now? My old BXL cabinet is great but that's because it's the only thing I have,it works,and it's loud. I've honestly never heard of anybody else having one,or talking about one other than me.:confused:
 
#19
BigOldHarry said:
That said, years ago I knew a guy who had worked at Fender who was the first one who suggested this theory to me: The reason old Fenders (as in Pre-CBS) are so cool is that all the poorly made ones have been 'weeded out' of the market (modified, destroyed, worn out) and only the ones that were good to begin with remain... Something to think about, I suppose.
Click to expand...

I hear that from time to time, but I don't buy it. IMO 95% of the people who own musical instruments don't play them professionally and are not very good players anyway. They wouldn't know the difference between a "good" bass and a "bad" bass, and they are certainly not "weed[ing]" anything out. The Pre CBS instruments I've played were cool and had a vibe, but I'm not sure why -- could be psychosomatic. They certainly were not better made than current Fenders. But nobody is paying 250k for a late 50s burst Les Paul because it is well made -- first issue of Batman either!
 
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