It almost seems to me that most other high end bases are copies of the fenders. Also the new fenders are also copies of the old ones. There must be something to that.
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Vintage Old Fender - I don't get it.
- Thread starter darwin-bass
- Start date
Once in my life, for about 3 minutes I played a an early sixties Fender P. It was beat to hell but setup perfectly and all original. A huge part of the great playability was how worn down the back of the neck was. That's what I liked most about it, but I don't think it sounded any better than new Fenders. But I want one. One day, not any time soon, I'll buy a bass that costs a few thousand dollars and it'll be a vintage Fender P.
I think newer ones are more consistent in manufacture. Because everything today is so computerized, everything is also perfectly rendered.
Maybe there is where the vintage Fender magic comes from: generally better wood and also the possibility the machinist who turned and shaped a certain run of body parts was on a hot streak.
The truth is every instrument comes together differently, even using the same parts.
Maybe there is where the vintage Fender magic comes from: generally better wood and also the possibility the machinist who turned and shaped a certain run of body parts was on a hot streak.
The truth is every instrument comes together differently, even using the same parts.
Some say that as the wood becomes older, it begins to petrify and harden, making it sound better.
Personally, I'd much rather have an old beat up Jazz Bass than a brand new 2013 custom shop with all the bells and whistles. Not because it's a technically better bass, but because it will have more character in it. It's been around, and I like that idea of a bass that's been played for a long time. Also, because vintage fenders look sexy.
Personally, I'd much rather have an old beat up Jazz Bass than a brand new 2013 custom shop with all the bells and whistles. Not because it's a technically better bass, but because it will have more character in it. It's been around, and I like that idea of a bass that's been played for a long time. Also, because vintage fenders look sexy.
LOL! "Lower prices". Tell that to the dude at my local shop asking $6,000 for a beat up 60s Jazz.
Vintage and antique means very little since I can at any time look into the bathroom mirror and see a 1946 vintage ME and although it is a more or less 'normal' thing to grow old, I am not better quality now in 2013 than I was in 1950, 1960, 1970 or whenever. Fact is, there might have been some ever-so-slight deterioration.
Smarter perhaps.
I can hold my 1946 Vintage left foot and cannot detect any technical difference or tone or playability with it than with a 2001 model - so age of the instrument at this point (1946 to-date) means very little gain in value. This also applies to guitars, cheese and aging wimmen.
I love the older Fenders, not so much any other brand, but that's personal and at my age I don't have any need to defend that stance.
Would I own a truly valuable Fender that was hand built by Leo hisself? You betchum!
Would I die if I couldn't have one? Nope. Well --- if it were a 1957 closet maiden \0/ - perhaps.
I make music and don't agonize over the age of the instrument.
Smarter perhaps.
I can hold my 1946 Vintage left foot and cannot detect any technical difference or tone or playability with it than with a 2001 model - so age of the instrument at this point (1946 to-date) means very little gain in value. This also applies to guitars, cheese and aging wimmen.
I love the older Fenders, not so much any other brand, but that's personal and at my age I don't have any need to defend that stance.
Would I own a truly valuable Fender that was hand built by Leo hisself? You betchum!
Would I die if I couldn't have one? Nope. Well --- if it were a 1957 closet maiden \0/ - perhaps.
I make music and don't agonize over the age of the instrument.
This thread is collective karmic payback for all the guitard or prima-donna-singer threads. Now which is better, P or J?
That's in no way indicative of anything, except maybe that your local shop is crazy.
This guy's a serious collector & researches his prices. He is a bit of a knob, though. In the shape it's in, I wouldn't pay him more than $2000.
Have you tried doing an advanced search and searching the titles only?. That will usually yield much better results.
I was thinking the same thing!
I've found prices vary depending on region too. Vintage shops in or around Los Angeles seem to ask much more than the online dealers from the Midwest and other places (besides LA) I've looked when I was shopping for a vintage bass.
Lets not forget inflation now....no one has touched upon that at ALL and it needs to be addressed. Back pre cbs fender jazzes sold at time of introduction from $279 to mid 60s custom color versions about $329. In today's money thats about $1800-$2200...far cry from a 300 dollar squier. So really alot of these instruments like 70s fender jazzes have only gone up 1.5 to 2 fold what they originally commanded in REAL DOLLARS....comparing old prices wo accounting for inflation is about as apples and oranges as it gets...
Watch this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nswcAPvH0P8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here's some pre-cbs Fenders getting made. Simple production line instruments.
The pace this factory worked at is quite relaxed
so maybe they just took their time more back then and got them right more consistently, before the '70s arrived and they were rushing them out the place 
Each to their own but if I had the spare cash I would be shopping for a nice lightweight and resonant early '60s P tomorrow.
Yes I could get a US Lakland (I wouldn't say no there either) but I do believe that a decent instrument having a half century to settle in with itself isn't going to hurt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nswcAPvH0P8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here's some pre-cbs Fenders getting made. Simple production line instruments.
The pace this factory worked at is quite relaxed
so maybe they just took their time more back then and got them right more consistently, before the '70s arrived and they were rushing them out the place Each to their own but if I had the spare cash I would be shopping for a nice lightweight and resonant early '60s P tomorrow.
Yes I could get a US Lakland (I wouldn't say no there either) but I do believe that a decent instrument having a half century to settle in with itself isn't going to hurt.
I have a couple stock vintage pieces that I bought for MUCH less than market value. At the right place at the right time, mostly. The rest of my "vintage" basses are all real Fender parts from the 60's that I've collected and put together into working instruments. Valuable? No. Functional reeal vintage feel & tone? Oh, yes! That said, vintage asking prices and real selling prices are pretty divergent. Like pawn shops were in the old days, a handful of serious cash was rarely allowed to leave the store when offered. If you have the dosh and really want the instrument, make your best offer with cash in hand. You might be pleasantly surprised. If not, you still have you cash and the store owner will take you a bit more seriously next time you walk in.
Three words: NOSTALGIA, COLLECTABILITY, INVESTMENT. Not to mention sound and tone for miles. I have news for you..... A Squier comes no where near a vintage Fender. You might like to think so if you own a Squier,, but is just ain't so. Example. Look at any old Motown YouTube. What is the bassist playing? Look at any old Country YouTube. What is the bassist playing? Look at any old Rock YouTube. What is the bassist usually playing? Modern basses are just that. Modern basses. Squier's are just a budget Fender. New Fender American Basses are just recreations of original vintage Fender basses. MIM Fenders are just lower priced modern imports of Fender Vintage Basses. If you don't get the fact that Fender basses started it all and the vintage ones are part of history, then just be satisfied with your Squiers and imports and quit having vintage envy. This is my opinion. I have been around long enough to know that folks who brag about their lower priced or newer gear is superior to vintage gear haven't got a clue to how vintage basses shaped music history. I could start a thread about how Squiers, imports, etc are not anywhere near as good as Am Std or vintage Fender and many of you would get your hackles raised. Just play what you own and play what you like but don't take out on us folks who love the history of music and the instruments that made that history.
I don't own vintage gear, but I love reissues. The objections the OP raised sound reasonable, but let's look at them: only a single truss rod?
-- My Fender Classic '51 P was shipped from Japan in a cardboard box. I adjusted the truss rod exactly once, about two weeks after it arrived in humid Deep East Texas. Yeah, I had to remove the neck to do it, but that's doable every, let's see, 7 years. I used to have a "modern" Carvin LB20 with through-neck construction, and the truss rod had to be tweaked every time it came out of the case.
Thin sheet metal bridge?
-- There's a lot of testimony that that flimsy piece of plated steel is a significant contributor to the Fender sound. Lots of guys have installed a "superior" Badass bridge, only to lose the tone they loved.
Neck dive?
-- I've never experienced it with five or so Fenders. I don't know why some players do, or why I don't. In any case, my much more modern Stingray 5 suffers this condition more.
If you like 'em (and, again, my experience is with reissues: the '51, a Classic '50s and an AVRI '57) you love 'em and if you don't, you don't.
I'm one of those guys who believe that Leo got it right the first, second, third and fourth times (single-coil P, split-coil P, Stingray, and G&L -- all of which I have owned, or own). If you don't get it, then probably you should play something else.
-- My Fender Classic '51 P was shipped from Japan in a cardboard box. I adjusted the truss rod exactly once, about two weeks after it arrived in humid Deep East Texas. Yeah, I had to remove the neck to do it, but that's doable every, let's see, 7 years. I used to have a "modern" Carvin LB20 with through-neck construction, and the truss rod had to be tweaked every time it came out of the case.
Thin sheet metal bridge?
-- There's a lot of testimony that that flimsy piece of plated steel is a significant contributor to the Fender sound. Lots of guys have installed a "superior" Badass bridge, only to lose the tone they loved.
Neck dive?
-- I've never experienced it with five or so Fenders. I don't know why some players do, or why I don't. In any case, my much more modern Stingray 5 suffers this condition more.
If you like 'em (and, again, my experience is with reissues: the '51, a Classic '50s and an AVRI '57) you love 'em and if you don't, you don't.
I'm one of those guys who believe that Leo got it right the first, second, third and fourth times (single-coil P, split-coil P, Stingray, and G&L -- all of which I have owned, or own). If you don't get it, then probably you should play something else.
