Well almost anyone can find a decent bass easily today, but owning a bass with history and built from a different time and period just appeals to some...some not.
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Vintage Old Fender - I don't get it.
- Thread starter darwin-bass
- Start date
It just depends. I think there are dogs in vintage instruments just like they are dogs coming brand new out of the box. Its the combination of wood/electronics/etc.
That said... modern finishes are better (and safer). The construction of what's considered a mass production instrument is better. Its all better, and when you adjust for inflation new instruments are probably a better value than what their vintage cousins sold for in the day.
I had a 76 CBS Strat, brand new. It was a POS. I had to change the screws in the input jack cover because they were cutting corners and used screws that were too short - so the cover kept coming out. I had to periodically screw the the nut holding the jack down too. The pots went to hell a year after I got it. And no matter how much you messed with the micro tilt adjustment (admittedly I never took it to a good guitar tech; those things really didn't exist in the Des Moines of the late 1970s) or the bridge, the damn neck was always out of tune above the 12th fret.
I'm sure a well trained luthier school graduate could make it a great instrument today and it was a natural with black pick guard and white knobs and beautiful. It had a nice dark sound and I should have kept it. But your average MIM Standard Strat of today kicks its ass all over the map soundwise and quality wise.
I've not bought a used instrument since the 74 Gibson ES 335 I got before my senior year in high school (for $350) in 1979. Probably should have hung onto that too but I needed cash desperately in the early 2000 while in the middle of a rocky marriage.
I've steadily upgraded instruments since rediscovering playing in 2007. I had cash left and got an Ibanez GAX-70 with some of the 335 proceeds. I sold that to some parents for their teen daughter a couple of years for $100, I had an Ibanez Jet King III I sold (that was probably equiv quality to the CBS Strat - it had issues), an Ibanez AJD-91 semi-hollow that was very nice, and I had a Blacktop Jazzmaster and BT Jaguar. Tried modding those, kept the Mastery on the JM but couldn't bond with the sound, and the Jaguar ended up being sold to the guitar player in Dog Party (I tried PhatCats in that guitar and hated them). I sold my Squier Jaco fretless because I just don't have time to screw with playing fretless... but I love my 2 MIM and 1 MIA Teles, which are 2011 and 2010 instruments, I love my Squier VM 5 JB - 2013, I love my GL JB 2013, I love my 2010 American Special Jazz Bass. They all have different sounds and, unless I need to do dive bombs or very straight ahead jazz, I have all the guitars and basses I need for a while (I have a 2012-13 Yamaha acoustic electric). If anything, the next acquisition will be a double bass...
That said... modern finishes are better (and safer). The construction of what's considered a mass production instrument is better. Its all better, and when you adjust for inflation new instruments are probably a better value than what their vintage cousins sold for in the day.
I had a 76 CBS Strat, brand new. It was a POS. I had to change the screws in the input jack cover because they were cutting corners and used screws that were too short - so the cover kept coming out. I had to periodically screw the the nut holding the jack down too. The pots went to hell a year after I got it. And no matter how much you messed with the micro tilt adjustment (admittedly I never took it to a good guitar tech; those things really didn't exist in the Des Moines of the late 1970s) or the bridge, the damn neck was always out of tune above the 12th fret.
I'm sure a well trained luthier school graduate could make it a great instrument today and it was a natural with black pick guard and white knobs and beautiful. It had a nice dark sound and I should have kept it. But your average MIM Standard Strat of today kicks its ass all over the map soundwise and quality wise.
I've not bought a used instrument since the 74 Gibson ES 335 I got before my senior year in high school (for $350) in 1979. Probably should have hung onto that too but I needed cash desperately in the early 2000 while in the middle of a rocky marriage.
I've steadily upgraded instruments since rediscovering playing in 2007. I had cash left and got an Ibanez GAX-70 with some of the 335 proceeds. I sold that to some parents for their teen daughter a couple of years for $100, I had an Ibanez Jet King III I sold (that was probably equiv quality to the CBS Strat - it had issues), an Ibanez AJD-91 semi-hollow that was very nice, and I had a Blacktop Jazzmaster and BT Jaguar. Tried modding those, kept the Mastery on the JM but couldn't bond with the sound, and the Jaguar ended up being sold to the guitar player in Dog Party (I tried PhatCats in that guitar and hated them). I sold my Squier Jaco fretless because I just don't have time to screw with playing fretless... but I love my 2 MIM and 1 MIA Teles, which are 2011 and 2010 instruments, I love my Squier VM 5 JB - 2013, I love my GL JB 2013, I love my 2010 American Special Jazz Bass. They all have different sounds and, unless I need to do dive bombs or very straight ahead jazz, I have all the guitars and basses I need for a while (I have a 2012-13 Yamaha acoustic electric). If anything, the next acquisition will be a double bass...
Exactly. Although I agree with the poster that notes a lot of 70s instruments are not that well built and overpriced, and reissues of those instruments in the Squier line are easy to find - and they'll play and sound better for a LOT less cash.
well that settles it, I'm taking my three 70's P basses in tomorrow and see if they'll take them on trade for a Squier Affinity, I've been bamboozled.
No. They're just troubled guitars, sort of.
I loved my 1974 Telecaster Custom, but it had to be set up multiple times a year, the rear pickup literally died and had to be replaced (coil oxidization), and the tuning was iffy . . .
. . . but it did feel good in my hands.
I think there are many sides to it. They are solid, proven instruments, a widely held standard, they are what people grew up seeing, they are what people's idols play, etc, etc. To me, a good bass is a good bass, no matter what year it was made. If I was offered a beautiful 63 Jazz, but it played and sounded like hot $**t, I'd pass it. But if I found one I loved, I'd probably be willing to pay more for it than an equally good modern one, partially because of the history of it (I'm a history major and nut, what can I say). The main allure for me is options that you can't get in modern Fenders, such as a wider variety of colours, matching head stocks, stuff like that. I've played 70s Fenders that were awesome, and others that were down right terrible, bordering unplayable. Same with 60s, and a few modern ones as well.
Personally, I think what Fender is currently making are some of the best instruments they've ever produced. My main two basses are USA modern Fenders, though I prefer vintage specs just for the way they play and feel (7.25 radius, shallow necks, small frets, nitro). I could care less that they aren't old, they are great instruments, the design is fairly simple and effective.
Really, with the OP's question, you could entirely rewrite it omitting every mention of the word vintage, and it would just read as someone who doesn't "get" Fenders. The overall design really hasn't changed much, or a tall in the case of the Vintage Reissue lines. By and large, they aren't at all neck heavy unless you get an unusually light body, the old bridges aren't flimsy (it's metal, what are you trying to do, bend it over with a sledge? Even high tension strings probably aren't going to warp them), the truss rods work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing and don't get a lemon (something that can be said of any design). And you mention the 3-bolt necks, but those were much later developments that are not widely held in high regard, and correspondingly, will not be seen fetching as much money on the market. As far as worn out finish, well, why do people pay money for relic jobs? People want history, a certain perceived authenticity, which you could argue all day about why or what purpose it serves, it just exists. The non-angled headstock and string tensioner? Look at these basses, they were meant to be utilitarian, easily serviceable, and cheap to produce. Holding them to the standards of something like a Lull or Sadowsky is silly, they don't have the same end goal.
Finally, as others have mentioned, prices have really skyrocket in the last two decades due to collectors, people with disposable income WILLING to pay that much. They wouldn't be that expensive if people weren't willing to pay. For one reason or another, additional extrinsic value is accumulated, and their prices go up as people are willing to shell out cash. They won't ever be making more 1965 Fender Jazz basses, there exists a supply shortage (or rather, limit). And if you've studied economics, when there is a demand and supply side shortages, you have inflation of prices.
So, in conclusion, like them or not, I think it's more an issue of your particular tastes not lining up with what the traditional Fender designs have to offer, be they vintage pieces or modern executions. Or maybe you do like modern Fenders and it's just the value of the old ones that is baffling, which points more to an issue of not understanding how people come to place value on old objects (a matter that could cause endless debate, I don't believe any definitive conclusion has been made as far as the cause of the existence of nostalgia). So whatever floats your boat mang, you don't have to understand, be happy with what you do, and don't question other people's happiness.
Edit: In full disclosure, I DO exclusively use vintage amps, largely because the design of my amps, namely Sunn, are no longer produced. If they were, I'm sure I'd be happy to use those. Likewise, if I felt Fender did not produce Vintage Reissues that met my standards, I'm sure I'd exclusively play vintage models.
Personally, I think what Fender is currently making are some of the best instruments they've ever produced. My main two basses are USA modern Fenders, though I prefer vintage specs just for the way they play and feel (7.25 radius, shallow necks, small frets, nitro). I could care less that they aren't old, they are great instruments, the design is fairly simple and effective.
Really, with the OP's question, you could entirely rewrite it omitting every mention of the word vintage, and it would just read as someone who doesn't "get" Fenders. The overall design really hasn't changed much, or a tall in the case of the Vintage Reissue lines. By and large, they aren't at all neck heavy unless you get an unusually light body, the old bridges aren't flimsy (it's metal, what are you trying to do, bend it over with a sledge? Even high tension strings probably aren't going to warp them), the truss rods work perfectly fine if you know what you're doing and don't get a lemon (something that can be said of any design). And you mention the 3-bolt necks, but those were much later developments that are not widely held in high regard, and correspondingly, will not be seen fetching as much money on the market. As far as worn out finish, well, why do people pay money for relic jobs? People want history, a certain perceived authenticity, which you could argue all day about why or what purpose it serves, it just exists. The non-angled headstock and string tensioner? Look at these basses, they were meant to be utilitarian, easily serviceable, and cheap to produce. Holding them to the standards of something like a Lull or Sadowsky is silly, they don't have the same end goal.
Finally, as others have mentioned, prices have really skyrocket in the last two decades due to collectors, people with disposable income WILLING to pay that much. They wouldn't be that expensive if people weren't willing to pay. For one reason or another, additional extrinsic value is accumulated, and their prices go up as people are willing to shell out cash. They won't ever be making more 1965 Fender Jazz basses, there exists a supply shortage (or rather, limit). And if you've studied economics, when there is a demand and supply side shortages, you have inflation of prices.
So, in conclusion, like them or not, I think it's more an issue of your particular tastes not lining up with what the traditional Fender designs have to offer, be they vintage pieces or modern executions. Or maybe you do like modern Fenders and it's just the value of the old ones that is baffling, which points more to an issue of not understanding how people come to place value on old objects (a matter that could cause endless debate, I don't believe any definitive conclusion has been made as far as the cause of the existence of nostalgia). So whatever floats your boat mang, you don't have to understand, be happy with what you do, and don't question other people's happiness.
Edit: In full disclosure, I DO exclusively use vintage amps, largely because the design of my amps, namely Sunn, are no longer produced. If they were, I'm sure I'd be happy to use those. Likewise, if I felt Fender did not produce Vintage Reissues that met my standards, I'm sure I'd exclusively play vintage models.
YESS!!
I switched back to Fender a few years ago, because they play well again. The new ones are just lovely.
So for whoever asks this question tomorrow and the next day and the next and the next and the next and the next and...
Worry less about what other people do and worry about what YOU do. If you don't want an old bass, don't buy it.
Worry less about what other people do and worry about what YOU do. If you don't want an old bass, don't buy it.
I had a 1968 Telecaster bass, and once I got over the idea that it was a "classic" and really listened to it, it was pretty awful. I have a 2012 '57 RI Precision, which though very nice, does not get a lot of play (none ATM) because it has a big chunky neck. I'll probably sell it.
Modern manufacturing - and people's GAS - means top quality instruments are real cheap now, which I think we're all grateful for.
Modern manufacturing - and people's GAS - means top quality instruments are real cheap now, which I think we're all grateful for.
The endless debate... Old vs. New...
I guess I evaluate each piece of gear I'm looking at. I don't care about when it was built, what the flavor of the month features were when it was built, or the status of the company when it was built... If it's a rockin' piece of gear (bass, amp, cab, effect, whatever...) I'll give it serious thought. If it's got a high price tag JUST because it's old then no deal.
That said, I shave with a razor forged about 100 years ago, play a bass over 20 years old, and am seriously looking at a speaker cab built this (or maybe last) year.
I guess I evaluate each piece of gear I'm looking at. I don't care about when it was built, what the flavor of the month features were when it was built, or the status of the company when it was built... If it's a rockin' piece of gear (bass, amp, cab, effect, whatever...) I'll give it serious thought. If it's got a high price tag JUST because it's old then no deal.
That said, I shave with a razor forged about 100 years ago, play a bass over 20 years old, and am seriously looking at a speaker cab built this (or maybe last) year.
something about older instruments just give off a chill vibe. we've all seen the way people can mistreat their instruments too, so to me its cooler to have something that's been around longer than me
BassHappy
Supporting Member
Not trying to stray from the OP topic - but you have brought up a good point about the search function here.
Yeah, I have wondered the same thing - the search function seems a little antiquated and to me doesn't seem to work very well on TB. It almost never returns the thread names I am searching for in a hierarchal fashion. I have to sift through the names of the threads page after page until I find the relevant ones, even though the keywords should have popped those topics right up in the front.
What is the deal on this?
BassHappy
www.innertainment.net
I have played several pre-CBS Fender bases and they were truly amazing instruments. My late luthier Gary used to say there was something magic about the neck pocket of that era of fenders.
That being said, he also said the necks were dogs and Leo had designed them to be replaced as a modular item once it wore out.
Lately I've had this silly dream since I only play five strings of finding affordable pre CBS parts that were unfinished or refinished and not particularly restorable and having somebody build them into a five string precision for me. P necks are so wide it just might work!
That being said, he also said the necks were dogs and Leo had designed them to be replaced as a modular item once it wore out.
Lately I've had this silly dream since I only play five strings of finding affordable pre CBS parts that were unfinished or refinished and not particularly restorable and having somebody build them into a five string precision for me. P necks are so wide it just might work!
- Jun 5, 2008
- 541
- 104
- 44
- Disclosures
- MTD Bass (USA & Kingston) & Strings, R.Cocco Strings, Gruvgear, Noll Preamp, Nordstrands
I own a 78 Jazz, an MTD 535 and a bass that I put together myself, they all got played, I won't be keeping an instrument if I cannot use them for real life gigs.
The long history of why I owned a Vintage Fender goes way back 10 years ago, when I started recording profesionally, I was 20 years old and don't know nothing about instruments. I sold my Mexican Fender to buy a cool looking 6-string Bass, with all the money I had, including my first payment for a Recording Album I did. I was, and still a big Marcus & Jaco fan, and I cannot get their tone on the 6-string, out of the blue, I met a guy who owned a 78 'lawsuit' Ibanez Jazz Bass that has EMG pickups, and it nailed that sound in my head, I bought it, played the heck out of it hte next two years, and sold it to my student to buy, guess what, a real vintage Fender (1976), and was totally disapointed, it's heavy and does not record well compared to my Ibanez, I sold it and got a '74 Fender Jazz that I regret letting go till this day, that thing works for literally every gig. I played for a TV Show just with a DI box, and came out amazing on air.
I sold that one when I want to go to the USA for school. Shortly after the 74 I choose between a 78 and a '81 Jazz, and ended up with the '81 coz it sounded better, and lighter, had that for couple of months, and never have a Vintage Bass after that.
A year ago I got a 78 Jazz from a trade, played one gig with it and sold it, the frets were worn out so bad, the bass is out of tune really bad. I recently got this '78 with ash body and rosewood board, all original, and I'm really satisfied.
Since 2008 I went from F-Bass to Stambaugh, to MTD, and even a Fodera, and still keeping the MTD, and eventually becoming their dealer. But the Fender is different, I love it, and everyone I played with love it too, and they even can't tell the difference from when I was using my Fodera or even my MTD that I regularly use from the '78.
The 'why' part for me is the feelings and memories of listening to Jaco, etc, and having a Jazz copy as my 'career' Bass, but sound don't lie. I mentioned that I liked my 'Fake Fender' better than the real one, Mike Tobias said that old woods are used to vibrations, hence the 'better' sound compare to new basses.
My side of the story
The long history of why I owned a Vintage Fender goes way back 10 years ago, when I started recording profesionally, I was 20 years old and don't know nothing about instruments. I sold my Mexican Fender to buy a cool looking 6-string Bass, with all the money I had, including my first payment for a Recording Album I did. I was, and still a big Marcus & Jaco fan, and I cannot get their tone on the 6-string, out of the blue, I met a guy who owned a 78 'lawsuit' Ibanez Jazz Bass that has EMG pickups, and it nailed that sound in my head, I bought it, played the heck out of it hte next two years, and sold it to my student to buy, guess what, a real vintage Fender (1976), and was totally disapointed, it's heavy and does not record well compared to my Ibanez, I sold it and got a '74 Fender Jazz that I regret letting go till this day, that thing works for literally every gig. I played for a TV Show just with a DI box, and came out amazing on air.
I sold that one when I want to go to the USA for school. Shortly after the 74 I choose between a 78 and a '81 Jazz, and ended up with the '81 coz it sounded better, and lighter, had that for couple of months, and never have a Vintage Bass after that.
A year ago I got a 78 Jazz from a trade, played one gig with it and sold it, the frets were worn out so bad, the bass is out of tune really bad. I recently got this '78 with ash body and rosewood board, all original, and I'm really satisfied.
Since 2008 I went from F-Bass to Stambaugh, to MTD, and even a Fodera, and still keeping the MTD, and eventually becoming their dealer. But the Fender is different, I love it, and everyone I played with love it too, and they even can't tell the difference from when I was using my Fodera or even my MTD that I regularly use from the '78.
The 'why' part for me is the feelings and memories of listening to Jaco, etc, and having a Jazz copy as my 'career' Bass, but sound don't lie. I mentioned that I liked my 'Fake Fender' better than the real one, Mike Tobias said that old woods are used to vibrations, hence the 'better' sound compare to new basses.
My side of the story
I don't know. Does the OP have any problems with other vintage basses as well, or is this simply a round-about way of trying to disguise another Fender bashing thread? Because that's the way his post reads to me.
