Volume

[Progfan44]

It seems as bass players we're infamous for getting drowned out by the rest of the band, but I've found I can only play at my 100% best when I'm practically drowning everyone else out. When I practice I typically set my little 15 watt amp really loud, and I find when I sit at a "realistic" volume in a live or rehearsal scenario my playing gets significantly worse unless I can hear every subtle intricacy of what I'm playing. Today I tested it at a band practice, we ran a song with me standing away from my amp, and then again with me sitting right in front of my amp, and my performance was significantly better with the sound right in my face. Granted, the song in question is a 10 minute Rush medley with all kinds of shenanigans in it, I obviously don't have the same issues with less demanding pieces, but it's a little frustrating to spend hours and hours rehersing these fast licks to get them down only to have them not come across live. Is the solution here to work something out with headphones so I always have a front row seat to my sound without completely overpowering everyone else, or is it something I should work on?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

It seems as bass players we're infamous for getting drowned out by the rest of the band, but I've found I can only play at my 100% best when I'm practically drowning everyone else out. When I practice I typically set my little 15 watt amp really loud, and I find when I sit at a "realistic" volume in a live or rehearsal scenario my playing gets significantly worse unless I can hear every subtle intricacy of what I'm playing. Today I tested it at a band practice, we ran a song with me standing away from my amp, and then again with me sitting right in front of my amp, and my performance was significantly better with the sound right in my face. ............. Is the solution here to work something out with headphones so I always have a front row seat to my sound without completely overpowering everyone else, or is it something I should work on? Thanks in advance.

Yes we do need to hear what we are playing.
No we should not drown everyone else out.

You mention a 15 watt amp. Do you also use this when playing with others, if so I can understand you not hearing your efforts. Fifteen watts is not enough power when gigging. Fine for practicing. Little confused, are you drowning out the others with this 15 watt amp?

In a band setting - we have a sound person so I crank the knobs 100% and let the sound person bring me back down. We also play using an Aviom Aviom Home which lets me, and all other band members, adjust the volume of each instrument in the band to what ever level they want, and I listen to this with a one ear - ear phone. One ear piece giving me what is on the Aviom, and my other ear is open so I can hear our "house sound"

If I want to hear the lead vocalist as well as the kick drum I adjust those stations on my aviom and I of course have my bass station on a level where I can hear myself.

To answer your question. Yes to a one ear - ear phone. One ear piece of your bass and the other ear open for the band or house sound.

Good luck.

 

[tfer]

Feed a line to your monitor mix, so you can hear what you are playing regardless of where your amp is.

 

[RustyAxe]

My biggest volume complaint is that it seems that the majority of hack "sound guys" are afraid of hearing the bass in the FOH mix. There are numerous recordings of me (in various projects) in which the bass is almost imperceptible. I told a "sound guy" this past weekend that if he won't put the bass in the mix I'll just walk off stage and let the band go on without me. Didn't faze him, but the BL sure took notice.

 

[Jon Moody]

You didn't tell us what your band rig is, or how that's EQ'd. If you're using a couple of 15" and a smiley face EQ pattern, your problem is right there.

I find that a lot of not being able to hear yourself isn't volume as much as it's your EQ. I rarely have a problem cutting through the mix at a low volume, but that's because my setup is usually very mid-focused. When solo'd, it probably sounds overly bright to people. In the band setting, it's ideal.

 

[mambo4]

 

[Progfan44]

You didn't tell us what your band rig is, or how that's EQ'd. If you're using a couple of 15" and a smiley face EQ pattern, your problem is right there.

I find that a lot of not being able to hear yourself isn't volume as much as it's your EQ. I rarely have a problem cutting through the mix at a low volume, but that's because my setup is usually very mid-focused. When solo'd, it probably sounds overly bright to people. In the band setting, it's ideal.

Nah man quite the opposite, I have my mids set to honk your ears off. I play a Stingray and set my eq so the mids are completely cranked with a bit of treble boost.

 

[Progfan44]

Yes we do need to hear what we are playing.
No we should not drown everyone else out.

You mention a 15 watt amp. Do you also use this when playing with others, if so I can understand you not hearing your efforts. Fifteen watts is not enough power when gigging. Fine for practicing. Little confused, are you drowning out the others with this 15 watt amp?

In a band setting - we have a sound person so I crank the knobs 100% and let the sound person bring me back down. We also play using an Aviom Aviom Home which lets me, and all other band members, adjust the volume of each instrument in the band to what ever level they want, and I listen to this with a one ear - ear phone. One ear piece giving me what is on the Aviom, and my other ear is open so I can hear our "house sound"

If I want to hear the lead vocalist as well as the kick drum I adjust those stations on my aviom and I of course have my bass station on a level where I can hear myself.

To answer your question. Yes to a one ear - ear phone. One ear piece of your bass and the other ear open for the band or house sound.

Good luck.

The amp I'm currently using live is a Fender Rumble 350, I wouldn't bring the 15 to a gig. That setup sounds like a great idea with the band mix and all, but as far as I understand that is quite expensive, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mambo4]

I find when I sit at a "realistic" volume in a live or rehearsal scenario my playing gets significantly worse unless I can hear every subtle intricacy of what I'm playing.

the image i posted is only a little tongue in cheek -it does work
BUT:
You simply can't depend on perfect sound.
Part of our job requires the ability to execute our parts properly in less than ideal circumstances
-like when it's hard to hear ourselves.
Practice your part independently of the band and know it cold ,
remove as many obstacles from execution as possible.

 

[Jon Moody]

Nah man quite the opposite, I have my mids set to honk your ears off. I play a Stingray and set my eq so the mids are completely cranked with a bit of treble boost.

In that case, are you in the same sonic territory as your guitarist(s), which is why you can't hear yourself? Have you tried backing off the mids (since they're cranked) and seeing if that helps?

 

[Progfan44]

I feel like maybe I misworded the question a little bit, a lot of people are giving me advice on how to be heard, which isn't the problem, I have no problem getting my bass to sit at a nice volume and have it sonically react well to the guitars. The problem is unless I can hear myself 100% clearly I have difficulty executing passges I typically have no difficulty executing when practicing alone in my bedroom, where I can hear myself 100% clearly. And I should further specify that when I say "can hear myself clearly" I mean in a "sitting in your bedroom alone" clearly not a nice live mix clearly, if that makes sense

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

ah yeah, that is where muscle memory kicks in.
you know those licks back and forth, up and down, so try not to listen so hard and focus on fingering.
if you are playing what you know to be awesome, then it will sound great coming out of anything.

 

[Lobster11]

It seems to me that everyone in the band always has the same problem: Everyone wants to hear himself above everything else, for exactly the reason you suggested. That's why everyone normally stands in front of his own amp, so he sounds louder to himself than to anyone else (or has a separate monitor mixed that way).

With a combo bass amp, the problem is usually that if it's on the floor and you're standing in front of it, it's blasting the backs of your legs -- and everyone else in the room hears you better than you do. You need to either put the amp on to of something, as someone suggested previously, or angle it upward so it's pointing more toward your ears and not so much at everyone else's. I recently had this problem where one of my bands practices, so I moved the amp to a location a little farther from where I stand and tilted it by laying a piece of 2x4 under the front feet of the amp -- made all the difference in the world.

This is also why a lot of folks like to use a pair of 2x10s stacked vertically on edge, which is what I use with my other band. I used to play there through a single 2x10 and had the same problem as with a combo, but when I stacked the second cab on top of it I could hear myself 100x better. And now the rest of the band is usually telling me to turn UP rather than turn down.

 

[hennessybass]

... a lot of people are giving me advice on how to be heard, which isn't the problem, I have no problem getting my bass to sit at a nice volume and have it sonically react well to the guitars. The problem is unless I can hear myself 100% clearly I have difficulty executing passges I typically have no difficulty executing when practicing alone in my bedroom, where I can hear myself 100% clearly...

Playing by yourself in a controlled environment (your bedroom) is a totally different situation than playing in any other environment. Sounds to me like the problem is not your live sound, or a volume issue, but maybe a concentration issue. Sounds like you have the live sound dialed in as far as volume and dealing with guitars, so maybe think about what else the issue might be... You will never be able to hear yourself 100% clear in a live playing siuation the same way you will in a bedroom. Even with the amp up on a create, or with IEM, you are still in an ensemble, and have to listen and play with all the other noise.

I know for me, when there is too much going on, it can be hard to play. If the guitar player is having trouble with his pedal board, and he is stressing out, and down on his knees in between every song, that is distracting for me and my mind is on that, and not on the songs. Which equals poor playing from me. poopy sound man,,, crazy crowd,,, had a bad day... they can all contribute to sloppy playing. You can have a line you've played perfect a million times, but if you are thinking about dialing in sound instead of playing that line, then almost guaranteed you will mess up the line.

Like @mambo4 said -- Part of our job requires the ability to execute our parts properly in less than ideal circumstances -- Put yourself in a mental place to focus and execute the lines you know you can play. You are there to play bass. Worry less about the sound and all the distractions around you, and focus on playing your best.

 

[ColonelZulu]

I use this:

JamHub | More Music. Together.

 

[MCS4]

. . . or is it something I should work on?

Yes. You'll always hear yourself less clearly live, and you'll always play a bit more sloppily live. Learning to improve your live execution even when the sound is abysmal is its own skill to develop like any other. No matter what you do to hear yourself better live, it'll surely fail sometimes... and you'll want to be ready for that.

If you do something at practice to hear yourself better, make sure you don't rely too much on whatever that is if you can't recreate it live.

 

[JollySpudd]

i agree with mambo4 on line-of-hearing speaker placement. that said, keep in mind, if that direction is hitting others as well, it can be abusive, as well as causing them to turn up more - hence the volume battle rages.

i prefer fullness to volume, meaning - add a tad to monitors, aim as much of your amp at yourself as possible, and the drummer, too if he wants it, otherwise, feed to monitors for definition - not volume - to the rest of the band that wants it.

live, sometimes a sound tech will down play bass, as well as other instruments in the mix, due to a lot of amp volume hitting them from the stage. so why pump it more through the PA when the amp is filling the room. with board recordings, this might account for weak bass on a recording, or other instruments. depending on room and band amp volume, the PA might emphasize vocals. if a recording is live - not through board, mic placement and directionality, plus mic freq response. -- I have the opposite problem sometimes when sound techs crank their sub cabs too much - it all turns to mud in a small room. (this re: RustyAxe's lament)

generally speaking - bass freq waves are big and less directional than high freqs, too much volume can lose definition due to bass waves folding back on themselves and making mush of everything else, hence sound techs not pushing them, band mates turning up to hear, bass turning up to overcome mush, making mush worse - on with the cycle.

everybody TURN DOWN - monitor yourself with your amp - feed it to others as they request it - plus, know your parts so well that you dont need to hear to play - ideally speaking. if i screw parts up because i can't hear - i don't know my parts well enough.

 

[Pyrat]

Tons of clubs have sound issues but if you AND the drummer can hear yourselves, sync-magic shall happen! I say, make it a priority during sound-check(if ya get one!) and then again during song 1 of the set...and keep the on stage volume livable, which too many players can't seem to wrap their brains around. The close-at-hand cabinet(for YOU) is great if possible...my old acoustic 360/361 used to melt the walls and I couldn't hear a thing...the newer and thankfully, more affordable hi-fi-ish options are really great. Best of luck~

 

[KevInDaBassment]

On an unrelated note, nice avatar OP! Kagura, right?

 

[SamJ]

In general, I find having speakers at my ear level makes a huge difference in tone (For the better).. sure bass is omni-directional, but bass guitar isn't.. there are tones and harmonics that need to cut thru in order for the song to have the proper rhythm.. I stack my cabs in such a way as to get one or two speakers up high, or I just sit low and play when Im at home practicing.