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VT Bass Rackmount...

#41
bgavin said:
The only problem with that is, switching while power is on.
One would ALWAYS have to remember to turn off the power before switching.

For me, the above requirement guarantees I would smoke my VTRM.

poof.gif
Click to expand...

My guess is that the rack unit itself can withstand switching under power without damage however being in the EQ circuit it may induce a loud "Pop!" Every time it's done.
 
#42
Not much to report from my corporate gig with my Motown/classic rock band. Unfortunately I didn't have much time to set up/tweak so I stuck to mostly clean/flat tones from the JGR tube preamp (Berg NV115 cab). However the VTRM did give me a really awesome overdriven tone for "Dance to the Music".
:bassist:

Got some hard rock gigs coming up and I'll give the VTRM a better workout then.
 
#43
Ohhh man... in short, the VTRM sounds awesome with my Bergantino NV610. :bassist:

I don't want to say it didn't work with the NV115... with my 11-member "Motown band" I stand practically on top of that cab, waaaaay off axis, and as noted I use cleaner tones. But using VTRM plus NV610 with my hard rock band, I easily dialed in killer SVT style dirty/gritty/grindy tones.

With the Character knob toward the left there is the Ampeg Ultra-Lo mid scoop thing going on, especially 9 o'clock and earlier. That's where the VTRM is most RBI-like. But as you pan Character clockwise, the scoop disappears and you get into dirtier, chunkier tones. For part of the night I dialed Character far right, past 3 o'clock: with my active Sadowsky the VTRM became dirty even with Drive off. But it was a nice kind of dirt: big sounding, power tubey rather than preamp tubey. The dirt can be mitigated by rolling Blend back, but for much of the night I had Blend full up! I never do that with the BDDI or RBI.

Been mentioned before, but bears repeating: the EQ knobs on the Tech21 units are powerful. Small tweaks (just one hour on the dial) can result in significant changes in tone. This can make the EQ challenging to use, but I prefer it to weak EQ. FWIW, I kept EQ close to noon, making gentle adjustments based on the position of the Character knob.

I'm still getting familiar with the unit, and would like to experiment more with the left side of the Character dial. Tech21 calls that the SVT side, with B-15 being noon, and dirty tones falling to the right. But again, as you push Character toward full left it becomes "SVT with Ultra-Lo engaged". (For those who might not know, the Ampeg "Ultra Lo" switch is a mid scoop with slight bass boost).

FWIW, I would refer to the right side of the Character knob as "V4-B wide open". It's thick'n'chunky and gets really grindy as you go full right. :cool:
 
#44
At rehearsal, I tried out my new VTRM with a modest Delta Pro 12a and compression driver that I use for a top box.
Vented Flat, F3 = 60 Hz.
The VTRM was driving a PLX-3002 using the Sansamp XLR-out and the PLX balanced input.

With all the knobs at Noon, and full Blend, my pianos and B3 have a rich sound, and good definition in the lower register.
The baritone and tenor saxes have a very good braap and razz.
With some experimenting, I think a raunchy bar room piano is possible.

Increasing the Character knob beyond Noon rapidly moves into "ganky" land.
This is exacerbated by the compression horn, and lack of a cab that can produce the lows.
IMO, the VTRM will be a better performer using cabs that do not have a full high-frequency range, i.e. NV610.

Cranked full CCW, the Character knob does the SVT Ultra-Lo as mentioned above.
The scoop is quite pronounced, and my pianos sound like playing through a packing blanket.
The amount of hiss increases as Character is increased beyond Noon.
It does indeed get quite dirty even with Drive turned all the way down.

VTRM is definitely for bassists, and for cabs with good bass extension and controllable tweeters.
In my dual purpose rig, it will operating in Bypass mode in favor of the RPM for my keyboards.
When I'm playing bass, the VTRM will be foot-switchable with the RPM for added grind.

I contacted Tech21 about using the DI and possibility of phantom power on that connection.
All Sansamp are internally protected from +48v phantom, so it is a non-problem.
Conversely, my SWR IOD will smoke if phantom voltage is present on the DI line.
 
#45
Really looking forward to giving one of these a spin. Anyone mess with the jumpers yet? I'd like to hear what the 80Hz/1.2K setting is like, and if it makes much of a difference.
 
#46
Tech21 should build a rack version of this with a digital front panel. Since it sounds like it does wildly different tones based on settings, it would really benefit from the ability to store several of them as presets and instantly jump between them, just like you can do on the TC heads.
 
#47
Having owned all versions of the vt except this one, I'd like to hear one with the hp filter off, the bass control at 80 and the mid 800. I think that would be as close to the real thing as you could get with this pre. I don't think they will make a huge difference though because the eq q is really wide.
 
#49
CAW said:
Tech21 should build a rack version of this with a digital front panel. Since it sounds like it does wildly different tones based on settings, it would really benefit from the ability to store several of them as presets and instantly jump between them, just like you can do on the TC heads.
Click to expand...

Heh. Given the TC reference, I envision a "kitchen sink" SansAmp.

The six presets on the VT Deluxe pedal are useful, you can go from one to another within one or two footswitch presses, but once you switch presets the knob settings become irrelevant. There's a way to figure out where each knob is set, but it involves turning each knob to the point where the LED stops flashing. TC has that neat LED dial feature that shows all knob settings at a glance.

Anyway, the kitchen sink SansAmp would be a combo of the TC programmable heads and the Tech21 PSA1 preamp. The PSA1 is for both guitar and bass, but of course our new TalkBass version would be bass-centric. It would have the LED knob indicators from the TC, and the killer SansAmp tube emulation. Instead of all the guitar amp modeling, we could mix'n'match features from the SansAmp bass preamps: Presence from the RBI, Character from the VT, and instead of messing with jumpers or stealing a single mid band from the RPM, all EQ would be parametric. Oh... the VT DI has switches for "Bite" and speaker emulation defeat, might as well throw those in too, along with the obligatory fancy footswitch for creating/switching presets.

That would be way too complex for me to gig with, but I'd love to play with it at home or use it next time I record.
 
#50
bgavin said:
None found.
I opened up mine after it arrived today (Link Removed flying around loose) and did a photo session on the unit.
There are Link Removed, no dip switches.
Perhaps Tech21 will chime in here, or I will send a PM to them requesting identification of those jumper blocks.

The VTRM is very nicely made on the inside. Very serviceable.
I will post hi-res photos shortly.

Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Click to expand...

That's not good. If you look at the VT Rack on the side of the unit by the power switch there should be 4 screws. When you opened the unit were the washers on all 4 of those screws? It's possible one vibrated loose in shipping or possibly there was a washer that accidentally fell in the unit during assembly. Either way I notified our production manager to make sure this doesn't happen although this was very rare. When the units are tested the bottom and top covers are not on.

You can see the jumpers in those photos. I will see if maybe we can provide a detailed picture in the future.
 
#51
Got the vtrm and it sounds really good with the nv610. My only complaint is that it still has alot of tone suck or high end rolloff, even in bypass mode. I put it in the fx loop of my genz sm9.2 and when it was in bypass it sounded dull, so I disconnected the pre and the brightness came back. I ran a frequency analysis on the unit and you can see it. Tech21, please don't try to give me any generic suggestions on this, it's a fact. This really is a great preamp but, thats something buyers should know.

I tried all the different jumper positions and I prefer the stock settings.
 
#52
kringle77 said:
Got the vtrm and it sounds really good with the nv610. My only complaint is that it still has alot of tone suck or high end rolloff, even in bypass mode. I put it in the fx loop of my genz sm9.2 and when it was in bypass it sounded dull, so I disconnected the pre and the brightness came back. I ran a frequency analysis on the unit and you can see it. Tech21, please don't try to give me any generic suggestions on this, it's a fact. This really is a great preamp but, thats something buyers should know.

I tried all the different jumper positions and I prefer the stock settings.
Click to expand...

I think I read in this thread it didn't have a speaker sim bypass... I'd imagine that circuitry has high end roll off.
 
#53
When the unit is bypassed, not active, therw is no speaker sim, just your straight bass sound. Its got the usual tone sucking loss of top end that all the sansamp stuff has. Which isn't a problem if you only plan to have it always on.



UOTE=MuthaFunk;15127239]I think I read in this thread it didn't have a speaker sim bypass... I'd imagine that circuitry has high end roll off.[/QUOTE]
 
#54
I will be away in San Diego for a week, and will run an RTA when I get back.

The Tech21 literature claims "true bypass" for the pass-through mode.
This will be easy to verify for both amplitude and frequency response.
I notice the "sucking loss of top end" also, but this appears to be the difference between pass-through and Sansamp engaged.

If the pass-through modifies the input signal, then it is not a pass-through at all.
The RTA will show this easily.
 
#55
kringle77 said:
...it still has alot of tone suck or high end rolloff, even in bypass mode. ...when it was in bypass it sounded dull, so I disconnected the pre and the brightness came back. I ran a frequency analysis on the unit and you can see it.
Click to expand...
kringle77 said:
Its got the usual tone sucking loss of top end that all the sansamp stuff has.
Click to expand...
I'm really sorry to hear this. I have an RPM which I'm not using now because of this very issue. I was hoping that the VTRM would be the solution.

Bummer.
 
#56
Actually, let me clarify that. When the blend is all the way to the left, you get the tone suck and high end bleed off. When bypassed, the signal is flat. I used fdecks freeza software to analyze it. Again, I like this unit alot. If tech21 would sit down with actual bass players, like the guys on here and design a product with their input, it would be like hitting a home run everytime. Instead, there is always this "if you just would have done this.....". Again, I dont' need a response from tech21. You make great products, we just wish you would listen better. This preamp may actually sound better into my nv610 than the preamp in my genz sm9.2, at least for my sound.

Blend totally sansamp, drive 9:00, character 12:00, bass 1 click +, mid 2 clicks +, treble 2 clicks -. Thats a good clean tone with the nv610.
 
#58
Why would anyone buy a Sansamp and then run it with all the Sansamp emulation blended out? I think it's a non-issue. The only feature that would have been nice IMO is the speaker sim defeat like on the pedal, and you would probably only want it to affect the line out to the poweramp/cab, not the Sansamp XLR. That said, I never found it to be an issue with the RPM or the RBI. The NV610 is a dark cab anyway. I bet it sounds pretty sweet through more balanced cabs - I'm looking forward to trying Fuzzbass's. Other than that, they have a nice standard feature set and connectivity. There's all kind of threads on here about what folks would put in their ideal amp, and you end up with every asinine thing under the sun.
 
#59
Just got done playing this unit plugged into the main fx send/return of the genz, the one that comes after both channels and eq. It worked just as well and gives me alot of eq options. It also sounded good in the headphones so, the tone may work well FOH. That would really make my life simpler if the tone translates.

Im going to be building a 1212/5 with 3012lf's and a faital mid and am curious how it will pair up with this unit. The nv610 has so much of it's own baked in sound that makes it work live, the 1212/5 may need some eq. Im going to run the woofers fullrange by the way. Please, no lectures on that.

My wish list would be to remove the tone suck, make the eq not effect the direct sound, adjustable mid, the speaker sim button should have been included on this one....I could live with some of the other issues. Still, this is the best unit of the 3 IMO.
 
#60
JGR, the funny thing is, the vt makes the nv610 sound brighter, more clear. The nv610 is dark, and the vt rolls off high end, but it has a big boost around around 3.2k then rolls off. That actually boosts the top end in a pleasing way and then cuts off the rest of the top to make is smoother and less clacky. The nv610 has big spike at around 3k and when you boost treble it can sound alittle harsh. For whatever reason the vt takes care of that. I can even boost 5khz on the genz and it sounds great, not harsh at all.

About the blend, if you are going to have a clean blend, why would you want it to be eq'd? You have an eq'd sansamp tone which sounds different than flat, so it's like blending mic'd and direct tones. So, what tech21 one did is give you a mic'd tone that you have to blend with an eq'd tone. Thats a recipe for headaches. The blend is good for running a really distorted sound and adding the bottom back in. Also, with the other two preamps being so ridiculously mid scooped, the blend helps give tone it's balls back......but then you end up fighting two mid boosted tones.
 

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