war in Iraq ?

[Komakino]

Originally posted by Icez


Yup, it was a real close one this time, Saddam only got 100% of the votes. Last time he got a devastating 99.96%

There were posters up in Iraq to show people how to vote, just in case they were unsure....they all showed a big fat TICK in the 'yes' box

Also, the 'yes' box was on the right hand side of the ballot paper...the first one someone writing from right to left would come to

Still, at least there's no problem with dimpled chads

 

[Ívar Þórólfsson]

Originally posted by yottskry


There were posters up in Iraq to show people how to vote, just in case they were unsure....they all showed a big fat TICK in the 'yes' box

Also, the 'yes' box was on the right hand side of the ballot paper...the first one someone writing from right to left would come to

Still, at least there's no problem with dimpled chads

Yup, Saddam was quite disappionted seven years ago when he only got 99.96% so they campained heavily for the 100% this time.

Here are a couple of quotes from CNN.COM which show how absurd this "election" is:

Now, as then, Saddam is running unopposed. The choices on the ballot for 11.5 million voters are "yes" or "no." It's an easy choice in more ways than one; those who vote "no" could face execution.

Ohh crap, I couldn´t find the second quote, but it was about that some voters voted with their blood and it was made sure that they´d receive special attention from the government, rewarding them for their true loyalty.

Weird stuff....

 

[morningdove]

the reason saddam was not taken "out" the last time is because we are mercernaries. our soldiers are not mercenaries. they had stopped fighting. in that, we had to back off and let him be. we also did not accept money from saudi, who wanted to give the soldiers and america money, due to going there and helping them. however, again, bush sr. did not accept it because our soldiers are not mercenaries.
about war in iraq. well, what he is making over there is bad. i see my best friends who today suffer from some of the bombs saddam set off while they were over there. i have sat with their wife while her husband quits breathing because of a chemical saddam used over there that even today affects his lungs and paralyzes his body. is he hiding this stuff, yes. he is not stupid.
i, being a military wife, wish war was not. to many people will die. to many families will be fatherless, motherless, etc. however, due to being whom i am married to, i have to be supportive to my husband adn the other soldiers. and trust in god the right decision is being made. i can not sit back and put it all down due to the fact that my husband does not need me to do that. he has enough stress without me spouting. i hate war. i hate death. i hate what is happening to this world. we are not the only ones going in. remember that.
can we have compassion towards those who will be going over there to fight while everyone else is arguing if there should be a war. a little support toward our soldiers would be nice. the beauty of not being in the military-you have a choice not to go, our husbands, brothers, sisters, wives, etc. do not have a choice. anyway, have a good day all.

 

[oddentity]

Originally posted by hunter585
I honestly don't beleive there is one person in Washington or anywhere else that has a large part in the decision making process that is more concerned about oil or any other commodity than they are about the lives of U.S. soldiers.

Throughout history, humans beings have always been willing to screw over other human beings for material gain. What makes you think things are any different now, in this country?

The government has done bad things, yes. Beleive it or not, they do know what they're doing.

How do you know this?

Why not stand behind them instead of voicing opinions on things none of us really know the full scope of?

You're right, I don't have all the facts. However, none of us do, not even the ones at the highest levels of the government (while they may have more info than us, there are some things they don't know, believe it or not).

We participate in a representative government. In my opinion, it is our duty as Americans to voice our agreement or disagreement with our government's policies. The government exists to serve us, not the other way around -- that is why I voice my opinion, even though it may disagree with the government's. Thank God I have that right.

 

[Brooks]

Originally posted by morningdove
the reason saddam was not taken "out" the last time is because we are mercernaries. our soldiers are not mercenaries. they had stopped fighting. in that, we had to back off and let him be. we also did not accept money from saudi, who wanted to give the soldiers and america money, due to going there and helping them. however, again, bush sr. did not accept it because our soldiers are not mercenaries.

Do a search on the net for GAO (US Government Accounting Office) for their Desert Storm Report. Between Saudi & Kuwait, US charged (if I remember right) US $ 95 BILLION to free Kuwait and kick Saddam out. Out of that amount, US netted a direct profit of $35 BILLION. This ONLY includes Desert Storm, not the 'reconstruction' of Kuwait. That part was just as mercenary - Bechtel picking up Philipino maids off of streets (who were paid $200 a month), then charging Kuwait Government for 'secretaries' $2500/month and so on and so on.

Then US signed a 'Protection' Pact with Kuwait, on a cust-plus basis for a cool US $ 2 Billion a year. THAT's why Saddam is still alive. He was worth billions to US alive...and dead, he is worth zilch.

If there ever was a mercenary war, this was it.

 

[morningdove]

i honestly believe that no matter which way this goes nobody will be happy. there are going to be people upset no matter what. angry nothing was done and something happens to us here again, angry something is happening before something again happens to us. no matter what, nobody will be happy. as far as receiving money, the soldiers did not, i repeat, did not receive money that saudi wanted togive the soldiers. how do i know this, because my husband was there. i know what he got paid. i know how little he gets paid for putting his life on the line for this country and the people in this country. and the people in other countries.
so why not agree to disagree.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by hunter585
I for one am disappointed to see many Americans here who have no faith in their government and military whatsoever.

Again, an either/or summation of a situation that is neither. This is not about not having faith in our government or military. I have faith in both. I have faith that our military can do whatever job is handed them. I also have faith that our partisan government will do whatever it thinks it can get away with (and benefit it's supporters). This would not be the first time nor will it be the last.

I will be completely honest-I know very little about the conflict in the Middle East other than the fact that a large amount of Clorox needs to be added to Iraq to eradicate the scum that resides there, Saddam Hussein.

Then if anything, you should be asking yourself why you, as an American citizen, know very little about the conflict? Isn't it your duty, let alone your right, to be informed?

What I do know is that the government and military knows more about any of this stuff than any of you people here can ever dream of knowing about, and that does include you that are actually in the military.

Hunter, you've already professed as to how little you know. In spite of what you think, there are people who "are" interested and do actually know more than you estimate. Quite a bit of this is public information, available to anyone willing to make the effort and look.

This country was not founded on the principle of sitting back and letting the government take care of things, we have a right to question whatever is going on on our behalf. As such we should make the effort to be informed. Do you disagree?

Face it; We simply cannot make the decision of whether we go to war or not. Neither can we remove Bush from power so he won't "try and finish Daddy's work" (which I must add is a ridiculous comment based simply on the fact that beleive it or not, I'm sure Bush has a conscience). The government of our country may not know what is best, but they are going to do the best they can based on the information they have. I honestly don't beleive there is one person in Washington or anywhere else that has a large part in the decision making process that is more concerned about oil or any other commodity than they are about the lives of U.S. soldiers.

You have every right to believe that if you want. OTOH you haven't made an effort to find out what's actually going on. See a problem there?

The government has done bad things, yes. Beleive it or not, they do know what they're doing. Why not stand behind them instead of voicing opinions on things none of us really know the full scope of?

Hunter, you just said the government has done bad things AND knows what they're doing. The kicker is that you think we should blindly stand behind them, apparently even when they're doing bad things.

Any problem with that?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a discussion because so far it is very interesting. I do beleive, however, that many of the things here are said out of turn and with little reference to factual evidence. If you don't know, don't make things up to make yourself sound smarter or to try and further your agenda.

How do you decide what is based on fact and what is based on conjecture? Which things do you think have been said here that are incorrect? Just curious.

 

[Secksay]

Just as an amusing story to go along with this topic:

The guitarist in my band will be in the upcoming Rolling Stone issue. Last Wednesday he got onto MTV's TRL and got on camera and started protesting the war along with a couple of friends. He quickly got kicked out and roughed up by the mtv staff.

Apparently voicing your opinion on national live broadcasts gets you beat up and in the magazines

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally posted by Secksay
Just as an amusing story to go along with this topic:

The guitarist in my band will be in the upcoming Rolling Stone issue. Last Wednesday he got onto MTV's TRL and got on camera and started protesting the war along with a couple of friends. He quickly got kicked out and roughed up by the mtv staff.

Apparently voicing your opinion on national live broadcasts gets you beat up and in the magazines

The Hippies Will Rise Again

And I'll be right there wearing a hemp necklace and listening to String Cheese Incident.

 

[SMASH]

A bit of levity :


Link Removed

 

[P. Aaron]

It seems Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has managed to eke out an 11th hour re-election victory over the "Freedom for All" opposition party.

With 100% of the precincts reporting, Saddam has a slim but consistent 99.98% of the vote.

With only one person in 15 million voting against the incumbent, it appeared in question. But absentee balloting and a solid base support was enough to push Hussein over the top.

Reporters were unable to secure an interview with the voter who had voted "no". It is said he has taken ill, and has left the area for "rest and rehabilitation".

 

[Chris Brodowski]

Wow, I can't believe I just found this thread now!



I cannot believe the blind faith that some people show in the government, it's truly disgusting. You people must remember the reasons why this war will actually be fought.

1) A "friendly" government in the oil-rich (read- oil=$$$$$$) Middle East (read: economic puppet = cheap labor).

Why did we go to Vietnam? The possibility of cheap labor for our big buisnesses. Don't be naive; Communism doesn't mean anything. This nation is one of huge and cruel corporations who will take every chance they get to spueeze the American and foreign worker out of every possible bit of money. Why haven't we invaded Cuba? First, there's no Oil (read oil=$$$), and Secondly, because Castro doesn't let the U.S. make Cuba into a "democratic" (read: puppet government = cheap labor). We could care less what system of government Cuba runs as long as we got their cheap labor.

2) To distract the blind, ignorant and stupid U.S. public (on average) about the economic failings of the Bush administration by starting a war, which would have the benefits as stated above....



SMASH: DUDE THAT PICTURE RULES!!!!! And it is 100% true too....


So far I have seen one war supporter (ChaosGWAR) who doesn't seem hypocritical. I, and many others, would appreciate it if war supporters find out the REAL truth behind the U.S.'s actions and stop falsely assuming we are out being the world's "good cop." We do much good in this world, but we also are extremely EVIL and CORRUPT in ways that you are either not comprehending (read: GET EDUCATED!!!!) or denying (read: GEET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR @##)





Plus: If you want to fight so badly, enlist in the military. You'll find the real truth soon enough, when you are being shot at, and your friends are dying, for oil companies and rich CEO's. Would you wanna take a bullet or 17 for the EXXON corporation? How about Mobil?


Anyone? Anyone? ........

It grows silent on the front....

 

[Komakino]

Originally posted by oddentity


Throughout history, humans beings have always been willing to screw over other human beings for material gain. What makes you think things are any different now, in this country?



How do you know this?



You're right, I don't have all the facts. However, none of us do, not even the ones at the highest levels of the government (while they may have more info than us, there are some things they don't know, believe it or not).

We participate in a representative government. In my opinion, it is our duty as Americans to voice our agreement or disagreement with our government's policies. The government exists to serve us, not the other way around -- that is why I voice my opinion, even though it may disagree with the government's. Thank God I have that right.

Exactly. Here in Britain it is not merely the right but it is the DUTY of the opposition party to actively oppose the government. That doesn't mean they have to disagree for disagreement's sake, but if they have that duty then it is our duty as citizens to at least question the government even if later we decide we agree?

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by Chris Brodowski
I, and many others, would appreciate it if war supporters find out the REAL truth behind the U.S.'s actions and stop falsely assuming we are out being the world's "good cop." We do much good in this world, but we also are extremely EVIL and CORRUPT in ways that you are either not comprehending (read: GET EDUCATED!!!!) or denying (read: GEET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR @##)

Dude, that's hillarious!! Where did you "get educated"? Where do you get your "facts"?





Plus: If you want to fight so badly, enlist in the military. You'll find the real truth soon enough, when you are being shot at, and your friends are dying, for oil companies and rich CEO's. Would you wanna take a bullet or 17 for the EXXON corporation? How about Mobil?

As I stated earlier, we get only about 6% of our oil from Iraq, don't think that dog will hunt.

 

[Secksay]

yes, we have an incredibly large amount of oil here within the states, we just choose not to export it. Some people believe its part of the US' plan to just use up all the world's oil and then hoard the only supply left.

Too bad by the time that happens, we won't need oil anymore.

 

[Phil Smith]

You ever notice how bullies only pick on people they know they can beat and always start fights with them, get all up in their face and stuff? This whole conflict seems like that to me.

 

[Phil Smith]

How propaganda got us into Iraq the first time around

 

[metallicarules]

Chris, most believe what they have most reason to believe. You say you wish people would learn the "REAL" truth, and "GET EDUCATED". Maybe you are right but strong statements like that need to be backed up with a little evidence if you don't mind. Otherwise you just sound like some nutcase ranting on about conspiracy theories.

 

[Brooks]

Originally posted by Pacman


As I stated earlier, we get only about 6% of our oil from Iraq, don't think that dog will hunt.

Perhaps, but anyone who controls south of Iraq has about 50% of world's oil reserves within a 500 mile radius. While US may not be too worried about the oil right NOW, what about 15, 25, 50 years down the road? While we may not need this oil for transportation (cars), there are many other areas in which oil is highly unlikely to be replaceable even after 100 years.

 

[Pacman]

Originally posted by Phil Smith
How propaganda got us into Iraq the first time around

Phil, no offense to you, but that's a huge load of horse pucky, to paraphrase an old TV show. Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd, we had troops ready to move on August 4th (many were at my military wedding that day, in full battle gear, ready to ship out). I believe our troops were on the ground on August 7th. That story ran on October 5th, well into Desert Shield. American public support for our troops was high from the beginning, I know - I was there to see it first hand. I did more than 100 troop departures at all times of the day and night, and the public was there to support our men and women every time.

When I want hard news, I don't think I'll turn to the CSM.