You have no idea how much I appreciate you taking that in the spirit is was written. Thanks, Dale.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
war in Iraq ?
- Thread starter kafka
- Start date
- Status
Thank you, Brad. We can have differing opinions and viewpoints, and the fact is they are borne of differing backgrounds, experiences, etc. There's nothing necessarily wrong with each viewpoint. The key is to express our opinions with respect for others' positions. In this instance, I reacted without thought instead of engaging in a reasonable debate.
By the way -- I hate you for all the basses you own! (If I knew how to insert a smiley face, it would go here.)
Cheers.
I would have shot the bastard and see what would have come of it.. but then again im a curious individual.
Ask yourself if you feel safer ousting Saddam and start a war, or sit back and do nothing and let a tyrant do what he wants.
Unfortunately a lot of people think this whole thing boils down to those two choices. That's the way Bush is presenting it.
Those are not the only choices. Think about it.
Originally posted by dls59
Thank you, Brad. We can have differing opinions and viewpoints, and the fact is they are borne of differing backgrounds, experiences, etc. There's nothing necessarily wrong with each viewpoint. The key is to express our opinions with respect for others' positions. In this instance, I reacted without thought instead of engaging in a reasonable debate.
By the way -- I hate you for all the basses you own! (If I knew how to insert a smiley face, it would go here.)
Cheers.
No, I don't think anyone has said that. Having the UN monitor and inspect Iraq's weapons in a very vigilant manner is not nothing. There are a whole range of choice between all-out war and the status quo.
Some hate is irrational but you have to consider the fact that maybe, possibly some action of the US government has justifiably caused people to dislike the US. This comment is not to be construed as, in any way, justifying inappropriate actions taken as a result hate. I'm just saying that are people out there who have legitimate reasons to dislike the US, and, instead of calling them all "evil-doers" it might be worth it to figure out where they are coming from and have a dialogue with them. Is that so unreasonable?
How do you know they haven't been wronged? Have you asked them. They behave in a repugnant fashion, but let me reiterate that, in some cases, US unilateralism and imperialism are a great tool for swelling their ranks. A little more cooperation with the rest of the world and sensitivity towards others might go a long way to convince people not to join the irrational few who use the most wretched methods as a redress for their grievances.
Huh, no one is giving any enemies the benefit of the doubt. Either way Saddam is going to have to fess up about his weapons programs. To invoke the Nazis is an easy rhetorical device to elicit sympathy for an argument. There were weapons restrictions on Germany after WW1 and no one every inspected Germany to make sure that they were held to the Treaty of Versailles. The world ignored Hitler, we are watching Saddam. As far as the Empire of Japan, according to the Bush doctrine wouldn't Pearl Harbor be a brilliant pre-emptive strike (Japan relations with the US were nearing the point of war anyone, so instead of being caught flat-footed, they acted, just like W would want).
The decision here is not between sitting on our thumbs and all-out hostilities, there are a range of actions that the US and the world can take to prevent Saddam from becoming a (greater) threat. The black-and-white world of Bush (except in accounting at Harken apparently) is a foolish model for decision-making.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,398
- 9,830
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
You obviously do not understand the doctrine of war, and how it's won. Without ground troops, there is no victory. (I was a ground troop, BTW, I was stationed with the 25th ID - right there in Hawaii - when you were 5 years old.)
This just in: Saddam's re-election bid is down to the wire! According to experts on the scene, the vote(?) is too close to call.
We might not have to send troops in after all.
Let's all relax now.
We might not have to send troops in after all.
Let's all relax now.
Cool. To recap, the choices were:
1. Ousting Saddam and start a war
2. Sit back and do nothing and let a tyrant do what he wants.
IMO there are other options. The more clairvoyant among us feel that trying the weapons inspection route again will fail. I still consider this an option so that would be number...
3. (no specific order). Granted this may be considered by some the same as number 2. Then again, anything short of a war would be considered number 2 by some
4. Economic sanctions.
5. Get a true UN accord and act on it.
I'm not saying any of these is the way to do things, I just don't agree that it's an either/or situation. There are more than two options, I'm sure there's more than I just mentioned.
I for one am disappointed to see many Americans here who have no faith in their government and military whatsoever.
I will be completely honest-I know very little about the conflict in the Middle East other than the fact that a large amount of Clorox needs to be added to Iraq to eradicate the scum that resides there, Saddam Hussein.
What I do know is that the government and military knows more about any of this stuff than any of you people here can ever dream of knowing about, and that does include you that are actually in the military.
Face it; We simply cannot make the decision of whether we go to war or not. Neither can we remove Bush from power so he won't "try and finish Daddy's work" (which I must add is a ridiculous comment based simply on the fact that beleive it or not, I'm sure Bush has a conscience). The government of our country may not know what is best, but they are going to do the best they can based on the information they have. I honestly don't beleive there is one person in Washington or anywhere else that has a large part in the decision making process that is more concerned about oil or any other commodity than they are about the lives of U.S. soldiers.
The government has done bad things, yes. Beleive it or not, they do know what they're doing. Why not stand behind them instead of voicing opinions on things none of us really know the full scope of?
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a discussion because so far it is very interesting. I do beleive, however, that many of the things here are said out of turn and with little reference to factual evidence. If you don't know, don't make things up to make yourself sound smarter or to try and further your agenda.
I will be completely honest-I know very little about the conflict in the Middle East other than the fact that a large amount of Clorox needs to be added to Iraq to eradicate the scum that resides there, Saddam Hussein.
What I do know is that the government and military knows more about any of this stuff than any of you people here can ever dream of knowing about, and that does include you that are actually in the military.
Face it; We simply cannot make the decision of whether we go to war or not. Neither can we remove Bush from power so he won't "try and finish Daddy's work" (which I must add is a ridiculous comment based simply on the fact that beleive it or not, I'm sure Bush has a conscience). The government of our country may not know what is best, but they are going to do the best they can based on the information they have. I honestly don't beleive there is one person in Washington or anywhere else that has a large part in the decision making process that is more concerned about oil or any other commodity than they are about the lives of U.S. soldiers.
The government has done bad things, yes. Beleive it or not, they do know what they're doing. Why not stand behind them instead of voicing opinions on things none of us really know the full scope of?
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a discussion because so far it is very interesting. I do beleive, however, that many of the things here are said out of turn and with little reference to factual evidence. If you don't know, don't make things up to make yourself sound smarter or to try and further your agenda.
faith is the incorrect word. faith is hope, hope is wishing, wishing is sitting on your ass doing absolultly nothing about your problem. Simply "wishing" someone else will do it for you. Atleast talk about it, it may not do anything directly but every little bit counts.
Just some facts for you to see clearer:
-the US bombs Iraq day by day, targeting power plants-> casaulties in Iraq tune them against the US
-very strong sanctions since Gulf ear-> tens of thousands sstarving
...
-the US bombs Iraq day by day, targeting power plants-> casaulties in Iraq tune them against the US
-very strong sanctions since Gulf ear-> tens of thousands sstarving
...
Yup, it was a real close one this time, Saddam only got 100% of the votes. Last time he got a devastating 99.96%
- Status
