Double Bass Warming up the bass?

[damonsmith]

Distortion products are very clean tones. It does not mean at all that they are distorted. They are called that because they come about as the result of non-linear addition of other tones. For example, a prominent distortion product in systems is the so-called 2f1-f2. So if f1=500 Hz and f2=750 Hz, the distortion product will be at 250 Hz. It will be a perfectly clean tone. It is called a distortion product because, if the system were perfectly linear, then if 500 Hz and 750 Hz went in, that's all that would come out.

They come out at equal sub-divisions, just like the overtone series. So, I can't really tell you what HZ they are but the first sub-harmonic below a C is a C.

 

[damonsmith]

Seeing as how I have been working with them for 5 or 6 years as well as consulting the foremost expert in world who studied them in a university context with professors of acoustical science, and you just learned about the posibilty of making them on a double bass today, you may want to consult your bass, and the available writings and recordings on this subject. Rather than just stringing together a couple googled facts for the sake of argument.

 

[drurb]

Seeing as how I have been working with them for 5 or 6 years as well as consulting the foremost expert in world who studied them in a university context with professors of acoustical science, and you just learned about the posibilty of making them on a double bass today, you may want to consult your bass, and the available writings and recordings on this subject. Rather than just stringing together a couple googled facts for the sake of argument.

Well, I wasn't stringing them together for the sake of argument. I was curious and actually seeking your help in reading about them and trying to understand the basis of their generation. I see you don't really know what their basis is (distortion products or not) and that's fine. I was wondering where I might find what those "professors of acoustical science" published. I'll take your advice and find out on my own.

 

[damonsmith]

Well, I wasn't stringing them together for the sake of argument. I was curious and actually seeking your help in reading about them and trying to understand the basis of their generation. I see you don't really know what their basis is (distortion products or not) and that's fine. I'll take your advice and find out on my own.

The above is exactly what the "collective we" are talking with your attitude. Coupled with your clear lack of complete information it is pretty insufferable.
Their basis is a fundamental, working below it instead of above just like the overtone series but in reverse.
I have worked on it enough to Produce them at will and understand it as it relates to using it as a musicial sound. I am a bass player not an expert in acoustical science.

 

[damonsmith]

I was wondering where I might find what those "professors of acoustical science" published.

In John Zorn's Arcana.

 

[drurb]

The above is exactly what the "collective we" are talking with your attitude. Coupled with your clear lack of complete information it is pretty insufferable.
Their basis is a fundamental, working below it instead of above just liek the overtone seris but in reverse.
I have worked on it enough to Produce them at will and understand it as it relates to using it as a musicial sound. I am a bass player not an expert in acoustical science.

Huh? Attitude? Here I asked you for information and you brushed me aside. All I said is that I want to understand their basis-- yes from a technical point of view. Is it a non-linear distortion or what? You made it clear that that isn't your thing. No problem. You gotta stop reading negative intentions into what I write. Where was the attitude?

 

[damonsmith]

Huh? Attitude? Here I asked you for information and you brushed me aside. All I said is that I want to understand their basis-- yes from a technical point of view. You made it clear that that isn't your thing. You gotta stop reading negative intentions into what I write.

I explained their basis from a technical point of view. If you don't understand how the overtone series is produced you are already in over your head, if you do then I already provided the information you asked for.

 

[drurb]

I explained their basis from a technical point of view. If you don't understand how the overtone series is produced you are already in over your head, if you do then I already provided the information you asked for.

An overtone series is something I certainly understand. Subharmonics are not part of an overtone series. They are actually an undertone series and that's not something common or simple at all. The Norwegians, with whom Kimura worked said, "In physics we call this a driven and damped non-linear system." That's not so simple. Yes, I found that via Google. The real issue for me that I'd like to understand is how one drives a system to produce undertones. You didn't explain that, nor would it be fair of me to ask you to. There's no ill-intent here. You said you are a bass player and not an expert in acoustical science. I really am seeking the kind of explanation that would be provided by the latter.

 

[Jeff Guevin]

I have an idea--someone should start a thread called "Let's angrily discuss subharmonics", and the last 20 posts should be moved to it.

 

[damonsmith]

An overtone series is something I certainly understand. Subharmonics are not part of an overtone series. They are actually an undertone series and that's not something common or simple at all. The Norwegians, with whom Kimura worked said, "In physics we call this a driven and damped non-linear system." That's not so simple. Yes, I found that via Google. The real issue for me that I'd like to understand is how one drives a system to produce undertones. You didn't explain that, nor would it be fair of me to ask you to.

You mean how to do it with the bass? or what phenomena for it to make that sound? The first I can explain, obviously demonstrating it is easier.
The second is covered the the book, which I read but don't rememebr exactly.

Here is what I know:
Kimara twists her string in the bridge where Dresser fingers it at the fundamental but does not depress it all the way and uses a slow bow with a lot of pressure.
if you grab a bass string with your whole hand and pull it to the side while bowing you can get a lower tone, but that is different than when you use Dressers technique.

 

[damonsmith]

I have an idea--someone should start a thread called "Let's angrily discuss subharmonics", and the last 20 posts should be moved to it.

+1.

 

[drurb]

You mean how to do it with the bass? or what phenomena for it to make that sound? The first I can explain, obviously demonstrating it is easier.
The second is covered the the book, which I read but don't rememebr exactly.

Here is what I know:
Kimara twists her string in the bridge where Dresser fingers it at the fundamental but does not depress it all the way and uses a slow bow with a lot of pressure.
if you grab a bass string with your whole hand and pull it to the side while bowing you can get a lower tone, but that is different than when you use Dressers technique.

Thank you. To answer your first question, while I'd like to know how to create it on the bass, I know that is not something I can learn just by asking a couple of questions. I really wanted to try and read what the actual down and dirty physical acoustic explanation is for how the bow drives the system to produce such undertones. I thought I conveyed that but perhaps not. I was not "dissing" your knowledge at all.

 

[philip sirois]

There's a humming in my ears and I can't make it stop.

 

[damonsmith]

Huh? Attitude? Here I asked you for information and you brushed me aside. All I said is that I want to understand their basis-- yes from a technical point of view. You made it clear that that isn't your thing. You gotta stop reading negative intentions into what I write.

I explained their basis from a technical point of view. If you don't understand how the overtone series is produced you are already in over your head, if you do then I already provided the information you asked for.
Incedently the EUB (Ergo) seems to also respond to the "warming up" idea.

 

[drurb]

I explained their basis from a technical point of view. If you don't understand how the overtone series is produced you are already in over your head, if you do then I already provided the information you asked for.

An overtone series is something I certainly understand. Subharmonics are not part of an overtone series. They are actually an undertone series and that's not something common or simple at all. The Norwegians, with whom Kimura worked said, "In physics we call this a driven and damped non-linear system." That's not so simple. Yes, I found that via Google. The real issue for me that I'd like to understand is how one drives a system to produce undertones. You didn't explain that, nor would it be fair of me to ask you to. There's no ill-intent here. You said you are a bass player and not an expert in acoustical science. I really am seeking the kind of explanation that would be provided by the latter.

I explained their basis from a technical point of view. If you don't understand how the overtone series is produced you are already in over your head, if you do then I already provided the information you asked for.
Incedently the EUB (Ergo) seems to also respond to the "warming up" idea.

Seems like deja vu. You already posted this (except for the EUB comment) and I answered. Then we had what seemed like a civil exchange and all seemed quiet. If there was some error, I'd be happy to pull this post.

 

[damonsmith]

Seems like deja vu. You already posted this (except for the EUB comment) and I answered. Then we had what seemed like a civil exchange and all seemed quiet. If there was some error, I'd be happy to pull this post.

That was strange. What I typed was: Incidenlty it works on my EUB, which has a solid wood body, it has a Low B so I can get the C below.
It works whether plugged in or not.

Then I edited the other post for spelling, and tried to add the warming up part what would have been the above post, and they seem to have morphed together.

 

[drurb]

That was strange. What I typed was: Incidenlty it works on my EUB, which has a solid wood body, it has a Low B so I can get the C below.
It works whether plugged in or not.

Then I editing the other post for spelling, and tried to add the warming up part what would have been the above post, and they seem to have morphed together.

No problem-- thanks. I guess we can just leave it as it is.

 

[Minibass]

From what ive heard, its the rosin that your warming up. The rosin already on your bow has been settled and cooled while the bow is in the case. When you warm up while long tones, the friction of the bow hair against the strings will warm up the rosin and stick to the strings more thus producing a bigger sound.

 

[Matthew Tucker]

How does one know when to stop?

 

[Jake deVilliers]

When it stops hurting so good.