Double Bass Warming up the bass?

[damonsmith]

From what ive heard, its the rosin that your warming up. The rosin already on your bow has been settled and cooled while the bow is in the case. When you warm up while long tones, the friction of the bow hair against the strings will warm up the rosin and stick to the strings more thus producing a bigger sound.

- That can part of it, especially for harder rosin and cold or dry climates.
I use Pops and live in the Bay Area, so it is generally ready to go.
Some of the rosins I tried when I was younger were even slick at first and then started to stick after playing a bit.

 

[damonsmith]

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[damonsmith]

Without trying to resurrect the flame war, I have some interesting new information on this:

Dresser had a gig here on Sunday, he was going to use my speaker cabinet. Then the airline sent his Czech ease to Seattle so he need my bass too.

He sounded great on it and was doing all sorts of sub-harmonic and mulit-phonic sounds.

After the gig I asked him about getting a good bow turn when you do sub-harmonics, I can get a really good one with a down bow but have trouble keeping it going, which would make it more musically useful. He did it starting with short bows and then worked his way up, then handed my bass to me.

I was not warmed up at all, and on the first try I could do the bow changes with long bows, it is something I had worked on for years without success.
The Bass actually felt way more open than it had ever been.
It is way more responsive. I can now make phrases changing pitches with sub-harmonics now, and could not before - and I had certainly tried.

Here are some other responses I got from great, experienced bass players:

Ken Filiano said this:
"your query is an interesting one. and i have some personal thoughts/preferences/theories about it.

1 - when i travel (especially by plane) long distances what i like to do is to play double stops with the bow on the 3 sets of adjacent strings:
1st = octaves
2nd = unisons
3rd = tritones
4th = minor 2nds

i play these slow and the dynamics: p, mp, mf, f, ff, then various crescendo combinations. i find the bass opens up from the travel in about 10 to 15 minutes of this process and begins to vibrate freely.

2 - when i'm home i always start with about 5 to 10 minutes of slow-bow long tones only on open strings. single strings, then double-stops (all open strings) at a dynamic of p. this seems to bring the body (my physical bod), the strings and the body of the bass into a nice vibrational space.

3 - i mix this routine up with pizzato on some days. when i do the pizzicato (after a few minutes of the above bowing routine) i work on sustain. will take an open string, pizz it and see how long i can hear the note sustain. then, i will proceed to different stopped single notes, pizz it and then see how long the note can sustain. i feel this opens up my ear/hearing sensitivity to creating a sustained pizz sound. it also develops the left hand's supple strength so that the note is not is not choked by the left hand, but held in such a way that the stopped note can sound and feel as resonant as an open string.

also, the perk in this exercise is the the right hand does not pull the string, but rather, it releases the string. this is important for resonant issues.


o just a note: i do this routine (#3) in all registers and in pizz and arco. and if i really want to drive myself crazy i will a tuner with a pitch indicator so i can see i can how my body effects the pitch (sharp or flat) of the notes as i produce them on the bass."

Joëlle Léandre said (Keep in mind she is French):

"funny question, YES! i am quiet sure specialy for wood instrument, more you play the same instrument, you talk with it, more you find your sound, your body sounds, it become a part of your expression, what you expect about your tool ; it's so personal an instrument..... so unique ( at least for me !!)
i am not a scientific specialist, it's also abstract, but this intimate part of you, this spiritual rare moment you have with your personal insturment, give you probably a kind of " osmose" with this wood instrument !!! it change the the " wood life""

 

[jsbarber]

Without trying to resurrect the flame war, I have some interesting new information on this:

Dresser had a gig here on Sunday, he was going to use my speaker cabinet. Then the airline sent his Czech ease to Seattle so he need my bass too.

He sounded great on it and was doing all sorts of sub-harmonic and mulit-phonic sounds.

After the gig I asked him about getting a good bow turn when you do sub-harmonics, I can get a really good one with a down bow but have trouble keeping it going, which would make it more musically useful. He did it starting with short bows and then worked his way up, then handed my bass to me.

I was not warmed up at all, and on the first try I could do the bow changes with long bows, it is something I had worked on for years without success.

Your story reminds me of a conversation I had with a luthier here in San Diego a few weeks ago. He was completing some significant work on Bob Magnusson's bass, and I commented that once Bob got it back it would take some time to play-in. He said, "You'd be surprised. Mark Dresser was in here a while back picking up his bass after some work had been done on it. As soon as we gave it to him he sat down and pulled big notes out of it for 15 minutes and it completely opened up." I said, "You mean he was using a bow, right?" And he said, "No, pizzicato - but you've got to realize how much power he has when he plays..."

I imagine Mark Dresser gave your bass a pretty solid workout before it got into your hands.

Anyway, I don't think that there are many who question the validity of the opening-up phenomenon.

Jim

 

[damonsmith]

I imagine Mark Dresser gave your bass a pretty solid workout before it got into your hands.

Anyway, I don't think that there are many who question the validity of the opening-up phenomenon.

Jim

- Yeah, it was certainly the bass, I had worked on it for years on that bass to no avail. I am trying to keep it going now. He said he mostly uses the Sub-harmonics to open the bass so the multi-phonics sing well.
Anyway, he is fantastic player.

 

[theshadow2001]

I'm with the doc on this one. I don't think he's being condescending. Just being articulate, meticulous and clinical in his responses. Thats how men of science are.

Im not denying warming up the bass has a positive effect. However I haven't seen anything by anyone in the discussion that shows what exactly is causing this positive effect. I don't think I ever will. Either here or anywhere else.

Just as a thing, most people seem to refer to bowing when the bass opens up. What are their experiences with pizz playing? If you soley play pizz does the bass open up after plucking some open E's and A's or does it require a bow?

 

[damonsmith]

Im not denying warming up the bass has a positive effect. However I haven't seen anything by anyone in the discussion that shows what exactly is causing this positive effect. I don't think I ever will. Either here or anywhere else.

Just as a thing, most people seem to refer to bowing when the bass opens up. What are their experiences with pizz playing? If you soley play pizz does the bass open up after plucking some open E's and A's or does it require a bow?

There might actually be some scientific research we don't know about on the subject.

Yeah, pizz really seems to help, as long as it is really powerful.

 

[theshadow2001]

There might actually be some scientific research we don't know about on the subject.

Yeah, pizz really seems to help, as long as it is really powerful.

It would be interesting if there was. Although I would have my doubts if there is. Im sure guys are more interested in reasearching how to make an excellent strad replica than the temporary effects of warming up an instrument. Which only takes a few minutes to do anyway. Still though it would be great to see the mechanics behind it.

I asked about the archo thing because I thought it might have more to do with bow and rosin. But if pizz can open it up to, well that puts emphasis back on the bass and the player.

Edit: Also emphasis on how the strings might react to warming up too

 

[damonsmith]

I asked about the archo thing because I thought it might have more to do with bow and rosin. But if pizz can open it up to, well that puts emphasis back on the bass and the player.

Edit: Also emphasis on how the strings might react to warming up too

In my experience it does not seem to do much with a plywood bass, which points back to the wood.

 

[oliebrice]

In my experience it does not seem to do much with a plywood bass, which points back to the wood.

be curious what experiences anyone with a 'new standard' or 'czechease' or any other good quality ply has had with this?

 

[Thomas Stone]

For those that don't believe in the effect of warming the bass this will sound like more nonesense.
For those that do, why not give this a try:

I put my bass as close into a corner of my room as i can and still be able to move the bow and then bow open strings etc etc.
The sound bounces back from the corner directly onto the top of the bass and it seems to increase the vibration of the bass during the warming process significantly.

 

[theshadow2001]

For those that don't believe in the effect of warming the bass this will sound like more nonesense.
For those that do, why not give this a try:

I put my bass as close into a corner of my room as i can and still be able to move the bow and then bow open strings etc etc.
The sound bounces back from the corner directly onto the top of the bass and it seems to increase the vibration of the bass during the warming process significantly.

Corners tend to accentuate bass frequencies (less than 100hz). Thats why in home audio you always see guys putting subwoofers in the corner

 

[Thomas Stone]

Hi The Shadow

That's exactly why I did it.

 

[damonsmith]

John Lindberg's response:
"My opinion yes, especially long tones. Izenzon was big on this being true and important."

 

[jmpiwonka]

Without trying to resurrect the flame war, I have some interesting new information on this:

Dresser had a gig here on Sunday, he was going to use my speaker cabinet. Then the airline sent his Czech ease to Seattle so he need my bass too.

He sounded great on it and was doing all sorts of sub-harmonic and mulit-phonic sounds.

After the gig I asked him about getting a good bow turn when you do sub-harmonics, I can get a really good one with a down bow but have trouble keeping it going, which would make it more musically useful. He did it starting with short bows and then worked his way up, then handed my bass to me.

I was not warmed up at all, and on the first try I could do the bow changes with long bows, it is something I had worked on for years without success.
The Bass actually felt way more open than it had ever been.
It is way more responsive. I can now make phrases changing pitches with sub-harmonics now, and could not before - and I had certainly tried.

Here are some other responses I got from great, experienced bass players:

Ken Filiano said this:
"your query is an interesting one. and i have some personal thoughts/preferences/theories about it.

1 - when i travel (especially by plane) long distances what i like to do is to play double stops with the bow on the 3 sets of adjacent strings:
1st = octaves
2nd = unisons
3rd = tritones
4th = minor 2nds

i play these slow and the dynamics: p, mp, mf, f, ff, then various crescendo combinations. i find the bass opens up from the travel in about 10 to 15 minutes of this process and begins to vibrate freely.

2 - when i'm home i always start with about 5 to 10 minutes of slow-bow long tones only on open strings. single strings, then double-stops (all open strings) at a dynamic of p. this seems to bring the body (my physical bod), the strings and the body of the bass into a nice vibrational space.

3 - i mix this routine up with pizzato on some days. when i do the pizzicato (after a few minutes of the above bowing routine) i work on sustain. will take an open string, pizz it and see how long i can hear the note sustain. then, i will proceed to different stopped single notes, pizz it and then see how long the note can sustain. i feel this opens up my ear/hearing sensitivity to creating a sustained pizz sound. it also develops the left hand's supple strength so that the note is not is not choked by the left hand, but held in such a way that the stopped note can sound and feel as resonant as an open string.

also, the perk in this exercise is the the right hand does not pull the string, but rather, it releases the string. this is important for resonant issues.


o just a note: i do this routine (#3) in all registers and in pizz and arco. and if i really want to drive myself crazy i will a tuner with a pitch indicator so i can see i can how my body effects the pitch (sharp or flat) of the notes as i produce them on the bass."

Joëlle Léandre said (Keep in mind she is French):

"funny question, YES! i am quiet sure specialy for wood instrument, more you play the same instrument, you talk with it, more you find your sound, your body sounds, it become a part of your expression, what you expect about your tool ; it's so personal an instrument..... so unique ( at least for me !!)
i am not a scientific specialist, it's also abstract, but this intimate part of you, this spiritual rare moment you have with your personal insturment, give you probably a kind of " osmose" with this wood instrument !!! it change the the " wood life""

Bumping this post which I found searching to see what was on here about basses opening up or warming up after a short period of playing.

I tweaked my back a few weeks ago so didn’t touch my bass in that time.
Just getting back to playing a bit and it sure seemed tight and less responsive.
I have noticed after 10-15 mins of loud arco playing my bass does open up quite a bit. This is a daily thing, not just because I didn’t play it for a few weeks.

Bow response improves noticeably and the voice of the instrument gains alot of complexity in the mids and upper register.

 

[damonsmith]

I don't see many people questioning this anymore. I assume it has to do with how the wood moves and why older basses sound better. My bass, the same one since way back in this thread has had another "awakening" as it reaches 100 years old. It has had a few over the years. Around 2016 the upper register just opened up and really started singing. The last several months it has just gotten louder and fuller. I have been using the amp less and less - there was recent free jazz gig where the amp was just too much and I had to stop bringing it.

 

[BPM Strings]

I think this is a fascinating subject. I've often wondered how much warming up is me vs my bass and I agree that it is probably mostly me. The changes in the sound of an instrument over time is well documented. As you play the vibrations slowly release internal tension in the wood, de-dampening the vibrating system and giving a bigger, more free sound. Every time I try to get into the literature on this I go cross eyed before I find the mechanism behind it, but I suspect that as the wood vibrates, the motion creates friction. The friction creates heat, and heat makes the ligen in the wood "slippery", which allows any tension in the wood to move to de-tensioned state. The heating of ligen to make it slippery is the characteristic that allows us to bend ribs and linings with heat.

 

[Don Kasper]

Well, somebody with a lot of disposable income (NOT me) and disposable or tolerant neighbors, needs to build a sound-proof closet, with a few subwoofers and a sweepable LF tone generator and subject a DB to 120db vibrations (around the clock) for a few days....then we'll be closer to knowing if this is a "thing" or just a "perceived thing".
Until then, for me, its : "The leads are WEAK?? You're WEAK!"
IMFO, of course.

 

[AGCurry]

... I suspect that as the wood vibrates, the motion creates friction. The friction creates heat, and heat makes the ligen in the wood "slippery", which allows any tension in the wood to move to de-tensioned state. The heating of ligen to make it slippery is the characteristic that allows us to bend ribs and linings with heat.

That's a good hypothesis, but that it would make an instrument sound better is a questionable premise. In general, tension is a necessary property of any wooden instrument.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I don't see many people questioning this anymore. I assume it has to do with how the wood moves and why older basses sound better.

Just as a note, “better” is subjective, and not everyone prefers older basses. I definitely do not, but again, that’s subjective. It may also be that many of those who feel that the opening up has to do with some sort of calibration/connection on the part of the player to the instrument are more interested in getting on with playing their basses than arguing potato/potahto on the internet.

At any rate, entertaining as this thread has been to read after all these years, it really needs to acknowledge the subjectivity of the topic and not return to a state of a flame war over opinions. In the end, something opens up when we play our instruments more, and that’s what matters.