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Warmoth has terrible customer service

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#41
StuartV said:
they should have absolutely NO expectation that the customer would know that the specific process they use cannot produce a vintage tint with untinted inlays.

And since they COULD make it with a vintage tint and untinted inlays - they just don't because, apparently, it would cost too much -
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Read Luke 19's response with his inclusions from Warmoth's site, and try and convince me the OP was wronged in any way. It is plainly stated, even moreso than I thought it would be. If that is not being upfront about it, like you claim they aren't, then I don't know what is. And if you still don't think they're being upfront because they didn't explain to the nth degree, then there's no pleasing you. Warmoth is in business to make a profit on product made their way. You can ALWAYS buy their wares "in the white" in fact, so you pay extra for the finish, so that concern re: vintage tint should be the very first thing you'd ask as the customer. They're not there to hold your hand and onsey twosey for those who don't realize that when you paint with a broad brush (or spray gun in this case) that said paint covers EVERYTHING. There are PLENTY of total-custom build shops out there that will make exactly what you want as specifically as you want for a price. Otherwise, get a plain clear gloss finish and wait 30+ years with your Warmoth neck and see how it looks. You know, just like the originals.

Lest you think I am being argumentative, I assure you I am not. I am simply suggesting you are giving too much blame to Warmoth unjustly.
I know exactly how I would do it differently from Warmoth to achieve what the customer wants, but that's a service I would provide, and they don't offer.

For the record, even as a novice I've ordered and loved Warmoth products for years. Just did my research first and asked questions along the way.
 
#42
all of you, keep your facts to yourselves, we are complaining here
:hiding: :p

really though I never had any problems with Warmoth, and each time I called I had somebody help me and answer all my questions. They even actually asked me if I considered all the pitfalls of ordering this option with that option. For example, I ordered a dinky J body, with a P route in the neck position, and I wanted a pickguard from them, I ordered online. Customer rep calls me right away: dinky sized pickguards cannot be ordered to fit P rout, regular pickguards will not line completely with the body outline, but can be had with a P rout. I went with the regular pickguard and it was slightly off in the lower bout, the curves did not match perfectly, but nothing that you would notice unless you walked up to the stage and stared at the bass player (nobody does that)
 
#43
The term "vintage tint" specifically implies a more yellow color than a standard finish. That's the point. If you know enough about what you are ordering to specify a "vintage tint" you should have a basic understanding that the finish will have a more yellow tint. If its hugely important that the block inlays are not yellow then you should ask beforehand if the finish will affect the inlays.

I've looked at Warmoths site and they do about as well as one could expect describing the huge range of services they offer but no one can tell you everything. Looking at the page linked above they are quite clear in showing the colors of the finish and that it is done after fretting. Even if you don't know squat about building a bass that should be enough of a clue to ask questions instead of just assuming they'll know exactly what you want. If you came looking for honest opinions I think you found plenty of correct ones. If you want condolences for the lack of research then I suspect a forum of custom luthiers are not the folks most likely to have sympathy for you. All that being said I hope things work out and you get what you want. It's tough ordering something and not getting what you thought, I just can't fault Warmoth on this one.
 
#44
Hopkins said:
Again, have you called and talked to someone? Every time I have called anyone at Warmoth they have been very helpful and friendly. Even when asking for an update as to when I would receive a neck.

Emails are very impersonal, so you can expect an impersonal response. A phone call always works better.
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Not being that het-up about it, not yet. If I don't get the shipping notification by the end of next week I probably will.
 
#45
I am just confused if you wanted a huge contrast between the fretboard wood and the inlays why you would do maple and perloid together. If you wanted crazy contrast and not have the laquer on the fretboard why didnt you go ebony, rosewood, bubinga, purpleheart or something darker ?
 
#47
StuartV said:
It's only plainly obvious to people who know how to make necks and do inlays. Which I would imagine many Warmoth customers are not.

Inlaying post finish would not mean that the finish would have to be cut - if all the cutting and routing for the inlay were done before the finish was put on.

And before you explain to me why that doesn't make sense, the point is that none of this is OBVIOUS to people who don't already know how to do this stuff - which is not Warmoth's main customerbase (I suspect).

To someone who doesn't know the full details of how inlays are done, one might imagine that the inlays have enough flex to them to accommodate the fretboard radius. And that the radiusing would be done before the inlay routes were done. And that the routes were done oversized by just the amount of the thickness of the tint spray (if that's a concern). So the fretboard could be radiused, then the inlays could be routed, then the tint sprayed, then the inlays installed into their routes with no further radiusing required, then the final clear coat applied and sanded/polished.

To someone who doesn't know the full details of how inlays are put it, it is perfectly reasonable for them to think that inlays could/would be done without having a tint sprayed over them.

Some of the posts in this thread really come across as arrogant, holier-than-thou, if you don't know as much as me you're an idiot types of responses. Not what I normally expect to run across on TB.
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Well said...I agree!
 
#50
I'm sorry, but it's common sense. It's the clear coat that turns yellow, so everything underneath will look yellow, not just maple. You still had a choice to return the neck, which you didn't, so whose fault is it?:eyebrow:

zfunkman said:
Old maple does fade to yellow, however, pearloid does not fade to the same exact same yellow and in reality doesn't fade much at all. If you get vintage tint don't order any type of white inlays as they will turn completely yellow. Basically, instead of showing any type of understanding, Ken pretty much called me an idiot.
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#51
You don't have to be an expert to realize that a clear coat finish is sprayed over everything. All you have to do is look at how a maple neck is finished and think about it for two seconds. Customer has the responsibility to do at least some research about what the person is buying.

Warmoth offers money back return. If the customer is not satisfied with the product, just return it. If you decide to keep something you're not satisfied with, you can't bitch about it afterward.

StuartV said:
It's only plainly obvious to people who know how to make necks and do inlays. Which I would imagine many Warmoth customers are not.

Inlaying post finish would not mean that the finish would have to be cut - if all the cutting and routing for the inlay were done before the finish was put on.

And before you explain to me why that doesn't make sense, the point is that none of this is OBVIOUS to people who don't already know how to do this stuff - which is not Warmoth's main customerbase (I suspect).

To someone who doesn't know the full details of how inlays are done, one might imagine that the inlays have enough flex to them to accommodate the fretboard radius. And that the radiusing would be done before the inlay routes were done. And that the routes were done oversized by just the amount of the thickness of the tint spray (if that's a concern). So the fretboard could be radiused, then the inlays could be routed, then the tint sprayed, then the inlays installed into their routes with no further radiusing required, then the final clear coat applied and sanded/polished.

To someone who doesn't know the full details of how inlays are put it, it is perfectly reasonable for them to think that inlays could/would be done without having a tint sprayed over them.

Some of the posts in this thread really come across as arrogant, holier-than-thou, if you don't know as much as me you're an idiot types of responses. Not what I normally expect to run across on TB.
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#55
Luke19Boarder said:
I spent approximately 25 seconds on Warmoth's website, and found these tidbits about neck finishes:



and


No, it doesn't specifically say that the finishes will be over the inlays, but if I read that I would think to myself "hmm ... I wonder if the finish will cover the inlays. Maybe I should ask before I spend my money on this product."
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Thanks for posting this. It totally helps make my point. As a regular Joe (meaning, not a luthier), I would read that and expect that if I ordered a neck with a vintage tint and pearloid blocks, they would tint the wood (with a dye? A dip in yellow sealer like Fender used to do in the 50s or 60s?), then inlay the blocks, then finish it all with clear. Am I correct? No. But, there is no "common sense" that says I'm wrong. We've already established that they COULD make the neck with no color sprayed over the blocks, they just don't.

Making a point of selling to people that you know have never built or even assembled a guitar before, and then expecting them to have a luthier's knowledge of inlays is baloney.

Like I said before, if they CAN build it the way the customer is expecting, and there's nothing on their website to tell the customer that they AREN'T going to deliver what the customer is expecting, and that the reason they are not is because their manufacturing process is not sophisticated enough and so delivering what the customer is expecting would cost them too much labor, well, I don't see how you can tell the customer that the customer did something wrong.
 
#56
elBandito said:
You don't have to be an expert to realize that a clear coat finish is sprayed over everything. All you have to do is look at how a maple neck is finished and think about it for two seconds. Customer has the responsibility to do at least some research about what the person is buying.
.
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Right. But, you do have to be at least somewhat of an expert to know that the tint is part of the clear coat. It costs extra, right? As a non-expert, just that fact alone would make me think it's a separate step done before the clear coat. It's hard for me, as a non-expert to understand why a finish in light yellow would cost more than he same finish in clear.
 
#57
hover said:
That's why I rarely post here anymore elBandito...too many people here mistaking common sense with being "holier than thou". It's laughable.
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To me, "common sense" is the same thing as basic logic. And so far, I have seen no chain of logic that takes you from the information on Warmoth's website to the conclusion that vintage tint color would be sprayed on over pearloid blocks. The only logic that even results in a conclusion that I should ask about it involves having knowledge that is not on their website that comes from prior knowledge about how Warmoth or another luthier does inlays.

A person with no prior experience, having only read what's on their site could reasonably conclude that inlays would not have a color sprayed over them.
 
#58
StuartV said:
To me, "common sense" is the same thing as basic logic. And so far, I have seen no chain of logic that takes you from the information on Warmoth's website to the conclusion that vintage tint color would be sprayed on over pearloid blocks. The only logic that even results in a conclusion that I should ask about it involves having knowledge that is not on their website that comes from prior knowledge about how Warmoth or another luthier does inlays.

A person with no prior experience, having only read what's on their site could reasonably conclude that inlays would not have a color sprayed over them.
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Which part of "On maple necks with maple fingerboards the entire neck is finished including the fingerboard & frets." makes it reasonable to conclude that any portion of the neck will actually not be finished?

How is it logical to assume that, because Warmoth says the entire neck is finished, they must really mean the entire neck apart from the inlays will be finished?

There is no guesswork involved here. The language is unambiguous. It reads: the entire neck is finished including the fingerboard. It doesn't say the entire neck is finished including the fingerboard, except for the inlays, does it?

Now, if this language is somehow ambiguous to anyone, the 'common sense' thing to do would be to seek clarification from Warmoth, rather than make an assumption based on your lack of knowledge.
 
#59
StuartV said:
Thanks for posting this. It totally helps make my point. As a regular Joe (meaning, not a luthier),

Making a point of selling to people that you know have never built or even assembled a guitar before, and then expecting them to have a luthier's knowledge of inlays is baloney.
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Where on their website did they suggest or even hint that their wares were ever intended for novices? or hobbyists? It's not on them to preface every order with the question "do you know how to build guitars?"

Lutherie and even plain-jane guitar assembly have always required at least a modicum of knowledge and skill and ability, some would suggest much more. I'm one of them, and I'm a casual builder. Alright... when a beginner's new kit-build plays like crap because they flat-out assembled it poorly or set it up wrong if at all, is Warmoth also to be lambasted for that? For not providing step by step direction to the fitment of their parts past general neck goes here, add screws? You can buy ready-made guitars if you haven't a clue. The more adventurous ask questions, and learn and don't make assumptions, be it for fit or finish(ing).

Tho not germane to this topic, how about wiring? Installing hardware? Is that on them too? They resell pickups but don't tell you how to solder. WHAT THEN?
 
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