Warmoth has terrible customer service

[LightGroove]

Where on their website did they suggest or even hint that their wares were ever intended for novices? or hobbyists? It's not on them to preface every order with the question "do you know how to build guitars?"

Lutherie and even plain-jane guitar assembly have always required at least a modicum of knowledge and skill and ability, some would suggest much more. I'm one of them, and I'm a casual builder. Alright... when a beginner's new kit-build plays like crap because they flat-out assembled it poorly or set it up wrong if at all, is Warmoth also to be lambasted for that? For not providing step by step direction to the fitment of their parts past general neck goes here, add screws? You can buy ready-made guitars if you haven't a clue. The more adventurous ask questions, and learn and don't make assumptions, be it for fit or finish(ing).

Tho not germane to this topic, how about wiring? Installing hardware? Is that on them too? They resell pickups but don't tell you how to solder. WHAT THEN?

I think the op was frustrated he didn't get what he wanted. Why do you guys continue to feel the need to bash him or make him sound like an idiot. Did you come out of the womb with an expansive knowledge of all things?..hell no ,but you sound like it...You had to learn as well...quit being a jerk

 

[Wagz]

I seem to make more posts about marketing than bass on here... Warmoth is just trying to run a profitable business. And a big rule of running a profitable business is you satisfy your target market first and make smart decisions about when and where to go "above and beyond." Most businesses make 80% of their profits from 20% of their customers, and many lose money, and even go out of business, servicing the bottom 10%.

The OP is not Warmoth's target customer and if Warmoth made the investment needed to educate every buyer about every step of their process as well as the eventual outcome of every possible combination of order, it would cost so much money that they'd alienate their target (and most profitable) demographic.

We've all come to expect crazy levels of customer service in the internet age but the OP and all the other people with complaints need to understand that Warmoth ultimately doesn't want, or may not even need, your business to run a profitable shop. They're not Amazon.com and they're not marketing their goods and services to everyone on the planet that wants a custom guitar or bass. If you don't like the way they do business, you are free to complain as well as take your business elsewhere, just don't be surprised if Warmoth or the Talkbass community tells you that your expectations were unrealistic and not a good fit Warmoth, who is ultimately a very reputable and service-oriented vendor to their target demographic.

This is simple business and marketing 101 and the rules don't change just because you want them to.

 

[hover]

I think the op was frustrated he didn't get what he wanted. Why do you guys continue to feel the need to bash him or make him sound like an idiot.

Wagz, excellent post!

I for one am not bashing anyone. I'm having a discussion. I thought that was what this forum was for. I even ended a recent post (#41) with "I'm not trying to be argumentative". Then it became a shift to a discussion over verbiage and a difference of opinion on what Warmoth should and should not be held responsible for over the manufacture and sales of their products with Stu specifically. And we can differ on opinion but I don't take kindly to being called a jerk over nothing, I've not shown you nor Stu, nor the OP any discourtesy.

 

[Hopkins]

I think the op was frustrated he didn't get what he wanted. Why do you guys continue to feel the need to bash him or make him sound like an idiot. Did you come out of the womb with an expansive knowledge of all things?..hell know but you sound like it...You had to learn as well...quit being a jerk

I think people are defending Warmoths customer service, more than they are bashing the OP. If the CS was really so bad he wouldn't have had the option to return it.

 

[Marial]

I seem to make more posts about marketing than bass on here... Warmoth is just trying to run a profitable business. And a big rule of running a profitable business is you satisfy your target market first and make smart decisions about when and where to go "above and beyond." Most businesses make 80% of their profits from 20% of their customers, and many lose money, and even go out of business, servicing the bottom 10%.

The OP is not Warmoth's target customer and if Warmoth made the investment needed to educate every buyer about every step of their process as well as the eventual outcome of every possible combination of order, it would cost so much money that they'd alienate their target (and most profitable) demographic.

We've all come to expect crazy levels of customer service in the internet age but the OP and all the other people with complaints need to understand that Warmoth ultimately doesn't want, or may not even need, your business to run a profitable shop. They're not Amazon.com and they're not marketing their goods and services to everyone on the planet that wants a custom guitar or bass. If you don't like the way they do business, you are free to complain as well as take your business elsewhere, just don't be surprised if Warmoth or the Talkbass community tells you that your expectations were unrealistic and not a good fit Warmoth, who is ultimately a very reputable and service-oriented vendor to their target demographic.

This is simple business and marketing 101 and the rules don't change just because you want them to.

Well, you are certainly correct that CS best practices vary, both within an industry and, most certainly, across industries.

In my opinion, and in my professional experience, however, a response that amounts to 'you'll get it when you get it and that's all you need to know', is poor customer service and is something I would expect of a shady eBay seller not a reputable business.

Again, it's not really that big a deal to me, I know I'll get my neck and I'm sure it will be of very high quality, but I find myself somewhat nonplussed by the idea that the response I received is an example of proper customer service.

There is also the possibility that the rep who fielded my inquiry was having a bad day, I have no way of knowing.

What I do know, is that I'm definitely looking forward to the arrival of my neck, and it would have been nice if an ETA could have been provided.

 

[Luke19Boarder]

Right. But, you do have to be at least somewhat of an expert to know that the tint is part of the clear coat. It costs extra, right? As a non-expert, just that fact alone would make me think it's a separate step done before the clear coat. It's hard for me, as a non-expert to understand why a finish in light yellow would cost more than he same finish in clear.

12 more seconds on Warmoth's site:

Vintage Tint
This is the addition of an amber tint to make the neck appear aged. This is not a relic type finish, just a tinted color.

Seriously. It's pretty clear (err, yellow). And the website also explains that the frets will get covered in the finish, so why would you expect that it isn't going to cover the inlays?

 

[LightGroove]

12 more seconds on Warmoth's site:



Seriously. It's pretty clear (err, yellow). And the website also explains that the frets will get covered in the finish, so why would you expect that it isn't going to cover the inlays?

Because he thought the inlays were installed later...

 

[LightGroove]

I seem to make more posts about marketing than bass on here... Warmoth is just trying to run a profitable business. And a big rule of running a profitable business is you satisfy your target market first and make smart decisions about when and where to go "above and beyond." Most businesses make 80% of their profits from 20% of their customers, and many lose money, and even go out of business, servicing the bottom 10%.

The OP is not Warmoth's target customer and if Warmoth made the investment needed to educate every buyer about every step of their process as well as the eventual outcome of every possible combination of order, it would cost so much money that they'd alienate their target (and most profitable) demographic.

We've all come to expect crazy levels of customer service in the internet age but the OP and all the other people with complaints need to understand that Warmoth ultimately doesn't want, or may not even need, your business to run a profitable shop. They're not Amazon.com and they're not marketing their goods and services to everyone on the planet that wants a custom guitar or bass. If you don't like the way they do business, you are free to complain as well as take your business elsewhere, just don't be surprised if Warmoth or the Talkbass community tells you that your expectations were unrealistic and not a good fit Warmoth, who is ultimately a very reputable and service-oriented vendor to their target demographic.

This is simple business and marketing 101 and the rules don't change just because you want them to.

This all makes sense...read the op.he was upset with the results but he was pissed that they were rude on the phone...I know when I ignorant to something I'm open to learning and criticism but not to being treated like an idiot.

What is their target market anyway?

 

[StuartV]

12 more seconds on Warmoth's site:



Seriously. It's pretty clear (err, yellow). And the website also explains that the frets will get covered in the finish, so why would you expect that it isn't going to cover the inlays?

Because, AS I ALREADY POSTED, what is not made clear is that the tint is part of the "finish" coat. Yes, I would expect clear (perfectly clear - not colored) over the inlays. And I would expect a tint to be applied somewhere along the way before that.

 

[Pajama_Bottoms]

It's called "finish", not "almost finish".

 

[Luke19Boarder]

Because he thought the inlays were installed later...

Because, AS I ALREADY POSTED, what is not made clear is that the tint is part of the "finish" coat. Yes, I would expect clear (perfectly clear - not colored) over the inlays. And I would expect a tint to be applied somewhere along the way before that.

But knowing that you aren't a luthier, or anything of that nature ... why would you assume that your thought process is correct? Why wouldn't you get clarification on anything that isn't spelled out?

 

[StuartV]

Besides all that, they take phone orders, right? I know I ordered my J body from them over the phone. Some people (few, I know) don't even have Internet access. Is it reasonable for them to ASSUME that the customer has read all the fine print on their website? No.

So, what do we know?

Warmoth cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has looked at (or even CAN look at) their website.

Warmoth cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has built or even assembled a guitar before.

Warmoth COULD build a neck with a vintage tint and uncolored clear over block inlays. It is technically doable. They just don't, because of expense for them.

Given those 3 facts, how reasonable is it for them to take an order for a neck with a vintage tint and pearloid blocks and for them to ASSUME that the customer knows that their pearloid blocks aren't going to be pearloid color?

 

[StuartV]

But knowing that you aren't a luthier, or anything of that nature ... why would you assume that your thought process is correct? Why wouldn't you get clarification on anything that isn't spelled out?

It isn't spelled out that they DON'T do vintage tint with clear inlays.

It IS possible for them to do it, they just don't.

So, if I order something with a specific color for the wood (yellow-ish) and a specific color for the inlays (pearloid), there would be no reason for me to question whether I would get what I ordered. Ordering it and having the order accepted is implicit confirmation that they can and will build what I ordered. The fact that they CAN build it and their website does not say that they WON'T build it, and they don't tell the customer that they aren't going to build it is the problem.

 

[Pajama_Bottoms]

So, what do we know?

McDonald's cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has looked at (or even CAN look at) their menu.

McDonald's cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has eaten or even smelled a hamburger before.

McDonald's COULD cook a hamburger where the ketchup and mustard don't touch the pickles or bun. It is technically doable. They just don't, because of expense for them.

Given those 3 facts, how reasonable is it for them to take an order for a hamburger with pickles, ketchup, and mustard and for them to ASSUME that the customer knows that their pickles or bun might have ketchup or mustard on them?

 

[superfunk47]

Besides all that, they take phone orders, right? I know I ordered my J body from them over the phone. Some people (few, I know) don't even have Internet access. Is it reasonable for them to ASSUME that the customer has read all the fine print on their website? No.

So, what do we know?

Warmoth cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has looked at (or even CAN look at) their website.

Warmoth cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has built or even assembled a guitar before.

Again, Warmoth are manufacturers of instrument parts, not a "build-your-own and we'll show you how" business. If someone's sinking money into a build, it's totally on them to know what they need to know to make the instrument into what they want.

With that said, and since Warmoth's customer service is the topic here, I'll also point out that ordering over the phone gives a customer a great opportunity to ask questions and discuss the build with the folks at Warmoth. They're not in the business of telling you what to build or doing it all for you, but they'll discuss ideas for sure. "Terrible customer service"? I think not.

It isn't spelled out that they DON'T do vintage tint with clear inlays.

It IS possible for them to do it, they just don't.

So, if I order something with a specific color for the wood (yellow-ish) and a specific color for the inlays (pearloid), there would be no reason for me to question whether I would get what I ordered. Ordering it and having the order accepted is implicit confirmation that they can and will build what I ordered. The fact that they CAN build it and their website does not say that they WON'T build it, and they don't tell the customer that they aren't going to build it is the problem.

He ordered vintage tint on pearl blocks, he got vintage tinted pearl blocks. Ever seen them under stage lights? They're still pearloid under there; they didn't cease to be once the tint was applied.

If I ordered black inlays on a dark rosewood neck (an option available from them, iirc), there wouldn't be a soul on here with any sympathy for me if I didn't like it.

 

[Luke19Boarder]

It isn't spelled out that they DON'T do vintage tint with clear inlays.

It IS possible for them to do it, they just don't.

So, if I order something with a specific color for the wood (yellow-ish) and a specific color for the inlays (pearloid), there would be no reason for me to question whether I would get what I ordered. Ordering it and having the order accepted is implicit confirmation that they can and will build what I ordered. The fact that they CAN build it and their website does not say that they WON'T build it, and they don't tell the customer that they aren't going to build it is the problem.

But it is spelled out that the vintage tint is a coloring that goes on the entire neck (frets, fingerboard, and all) ... so if you are unsure of EXACTLY what that means, the onus is on you, the customer, to find out.

 

[pilotjones]

Not for nothing, but wouldn't a vintage yellow tinted neck with full bright pearloid markers look a little ridiculous?

I mean, the yellow-tinted finish here is meant to simulate an old finish which has yellowed. If you had an actual vintage 1960's maple neck that had these markers as built, then today the nitro over the whole neck, including the markers, would be yellowed. Also like the formerly white binding on an old guitar.

Having spanking bright markers on a vintage-look neck would be a little like seeing an eighty year man or woman with normal wrinkled skin, except one hand or cheek came from a twenty year old. Weird. Incongruous.

I know that yellowed wood / bright markers is what the OP expected, but maybe he's better off with what he's got? For me, what he wanted would make me think an internal "WTH?" if I saw it in person.

 

[Big B.]

I think the op was frustrated he didn't get what he wanted. Why do you guys continue to feel the need to bash him or make him sound like an idiot. Did you come out of the womb with an expansive knowledge of all things?..hell no ,but you sound like it...You had to learn as well...quit being a jerk

The OP left the thread on page 1. He got some decent answers, some agreeing and some disagreeing, pretty normal for the internet. What we are doing now has little to do with OP and more to do with what should be expected from a company. Having an opinion you disagree with doesn't automatically make someone a jerk, though calling someone a jerk for disagreeing with you might.

 

[GBassNorth]

So, what do we know?

McDonald's cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has looked at (or even CAN look at) their menu.

McDonald's cannot reasonably ASSUME that the customer has eaten or even smelled a hamburger before.

McDonald's COULD cook a hamburger where the ketchup and mustard don't touch the pickles or bun. It is technically doable. They just don't, because of expense for them.

Given those 3 facts, how reasonable is it for them to take an order for a hamburger with pickles, ketchup, and mustard and for them to ASSUME that the customer knows that their pickles or bun might have ketchup or mustard on them?

That is one of the best thought out and reasonable responses on this thread! It totally sums up in a perfect analogy exactly what the issue is and who has what responsibility. Furthermore, if the buyer of said hamburger (or bass neck) isn't pleased for any reason with the finished product it can be returned in a reasonable timeframe for a refund or replacement.

No, it's not the buyers complete responsibility to know every nuance of bass construction prior to placing an order. Likewise its not the manufacturers responsibility to treat every potential buyer like a complete novice. Both the buyer and the manufacturer have to make some assumptions. What's important is that the manufacturer has given the buyer a return policy or way out of the contract if not satisfied.

In this case the buyer, I assume, has chosen not to take advantage of that return policy. So I completely fail to see how Warmoth has done any wrong here. I'm a past Warmoth customer and probably a future one as well. And in the past I did order a vintage tint black block and bound maple neck. And like the OP I was a little surprised at the gold frets but I chose to take 15 minutes to clean them off vs 15 minutes to write a complaint letter.

 

[Big B.]

It isn't spelled out that they DON'T do vintage tint with clear inlays.

It IS possible for them to do it, they just don't.

So, if I order something with a specific color for the wood (yellow-ish) and a specific color for the inlays (pearloid), there would be no reason for me to question whether I would get what I ordered. Ordering it and having the order accepted is implicit confirmation that they can and will build what I ordered. The fact that they CAN build it and their website does not say that they WON'T build it, and they don't tell the customer that they aren't going to build it is the problem.

You admit a lack of knowledge yet you say that they CAN
do it. How would they? Spraying one finish on the rest of the neck and frets and one on the inlays would require a huge amount of time and custom work. Inlaying the blocks after the finish is sprayed and leveling them to the finish is about 10 more difficult than that. I've built a fair amount of basses and I work professionally building and finishing wood products and what you are saying would be a laughable request for most builders.