Did you mean to write "Sadowsky, Lull and Valenti are all good examples of builders that source their necks and bodies from companies like Warmoth and USA Custom Guitar" ...or am I really confused about exactly how incestuous this business is?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Warmoth jazz bass owners
- Thread starter rupture
- Start date
Did you mean to write "Sadowsky, Lull and Valenti are all good examples of builders that source their necks and bodies from companies like Warmoth and USA Custom Guitar" ...or am I really confused about exactly how incestuous this business is?
I have a bit under $1000 in mine (pic below - body purchased already painted and routed). Well under the price for a new Fender Am Std Jazz.
If I sold it, how much would I lose? $400? $500? $600?
If I bought a new Am Std Jazz, then sold it later, how much would I lose? Based on new prices and what I see used ones selling for, I would expect to lose $400 - 500 (at least), depending on how quickly I was trying to move it.
The bottom line is that I don't think the economics of a Warmoth build are nearly as bad as people make out. And the "resale" of Fenders isn't nearly as great as people make out. I think I paid $650 for the last Am Std P I bought. It was approximately a 2004 model and it was in mint condition. There's a 2005 MIA P on my local CL right now, only asking $700.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
And a 2009 MIA Jazz for $500.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The bottom line: ANY NEW bass, whether it's a Warmoth build or a new Fender, is a bad INVESTMENT. If you are concerned about the economics, the ONLY wise money spent on a bass is money spent on a used bass that you're paying fair market value or less for.
According to yamaha(or more specifically billy sheenan) and other builders like roger sadowsky, it is not so much the age of the wood although old wood is thoroughly dried out. ...but the amount of time that the woods have seen resonance from the vibrations of the strings. They say that the properties of wood change with the many 100s or 1000s of hours that they are exposed to these vibrations and that the tone properties sweeten the sound after long exposure to this. Yamaha even has an artificial resonance aging system where they bombard the woods with certain frequencies and this acts to resonance "age" the wood and boosts the tonal properties of the guitar. Im not quite sure how all that works....but that is how they explain the old guitars sound better phenomena. Roger sadowsky feels the acoustic properties affect the tone more than even the electronics and hardware. I dont know if I would go that far, but to say that the woods dont have any or negligible effect on the sound would be shortsighted at the least. Every piece on a guitar or bass effects tone in my opinion. ...the certain percentage of each piece as to the whole will always be up for debate....
If it's just as simple as getting a bass with an alder body, maple neck w/rosewood fingerboard, and the right pickups, we'll all be playing a Squier Classic 60's with aftermarket pickups.
Unfortunately it's not!! As good as Warmoth basses are, they are not Fender basses. Just the construction of them alone make them different animals. For example The bodies are 1 3/4" thick instead of 1 5/8". The neck has either steel or graphite added that affect the tone. Also double acting truss rods instead of single action that affect the tone. Also the fingerboard thickness and depth of the truss rod is different. In theory all of this may be a better quality constructed neck, but they are also affect how the neck responds and bass overall responds.
Unfortunately it's not!! As good as Warmoth basses are, they are not Fender basses. Just the construction of them alone make them different animals. For example The bodies are 1 3/4" thick instead of 1 5/8". The neck has either steel or graphite added that affect the tone. Also double acting truss rods instead of single action that affect the tone. Also the fingerboard thickness and depth of the truss rod is different. In theory all of this may be a better quality constructed neck, but they are also affect how the neck responds and bass overall responds.
I have a bit under $1000 in mine (pic below - body purchased already painted and routed). Well under the price for a new Fender Am Std Jazz.
If I sold it, how much would I lose? $400? $500? $600?
If I bought a new Am Std Jazz, then sold it later, how much would I lose? Based on new prices and what I see used ones selling for, I would expect to lose $400 - 500 (at least), depending on how quickly I was trying to move it.
The bottom line is that I don't think the economics of a Warmoth build are nearly as bad as people make out. And the "resale" of Fenders isn't nearly as great as people make out. I think I paid $650 for the last Am Std P I bought. It was approximately a 2004 model and it was in mint condition. There's a 2005 MIA P on my local CL right now, only asking $700.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
And a 2009 MIA Jazz for $500.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The bottom line: ANY NEW bass, whether it's a Warmoth build or a new Fender, is a bad INVESTMENT. If you are concerned about the economics, the ONLY wise money spent on a bass is money spent on a used bass that you're paying fair market value or less for.
Sweet lookin axe dude!!!! That top and finish are gorgeous. ..
+1. Love the faux binding.
I am a semi-obsessive Warmoth lurker. I ordered a catalog from the back of a GFTPM ad in the early 90s, and spend way too much time with the online body builder now. I was on the verge of ordering a few years back, but found my SB2. mmmm....
I've owned quite a number of Fender basses - pre-CBS and otherwise. I can't say that any of them sounded exactly like another. Light alder, nitro finish, vintage hardware, and a neck w/o graphite (or other) tension rods, plus Brazilian rosewood fingerboards with the right pups and guts will get one as close as they're going to get. No guarantees it will feel and/or sound like the next one of identical parts. It's a crap shoot. I will say the neck and pups have the most effect IMO & IME. As said above: We all see, hear, and feel basses differently. Leo's standards weren't even close to those of today. One is as likely to get "that sound" out of a stripped (no poly) MIM bass as they might out of a $2K bass...IF true vintage sound, looks, and feel is the goal.
Thanks! I am really proud of it. It's my first "build". But, now I really want to get some woodworking tools and try making my own from scratch!
Maybe, for my next step, I'll just make my own body and buy a neck. It definitely feels like I've already been afflicted with an addiction!
That's how I ended up with this bass. I was trolling the Warmoth Online Showcase and saw this body. Being in the Showcase, it was discounted pretty good from their normal price. I couldn't resist, so I bought it. From there, it was just a matter of gradually acquiring the other parts and then putting it all together.
I took a recommendation from johnk_10 on pickups. He said these are the closest in sound that he's tried to producing a 60s Fender tone. I wired it up Volume/Blend/Tone (I know, the purists just all threw up in their mouths). It's my only fretless, but I figure everybody should have a fretless in their collection. And I LOVE it!
And, being fretless, having it doesn't make me feel like I should get rid of my SB-2....
- Feb 2, 2001
- 12,719
- 1,291
- Disclosures
- Builder: Valenti Basses
Just an FYI, I haven't used Warmoth in about 8-9 years or USA Custom Guitars in about 3-4 years.
Because you can use the exact same species of wood grown in the same conditions as tjey used tjen. Cut and dry it the same and you can use tje same kind and strength of magnets
Then you can compare those results with parts from aged basses. Its not a perfect methodology, but I think thats as close as you can get without a time travel modded delorean.
Point is that theres more than one jazz bass sound and every component contributes to the final tone... including time and age itself.
I think you can mod things to found the sound you want .
from a Value prospective , ... I bought a couple Used Warmoth basses ... then modded them to suit my needs .. buy a used Warmoth at the right price and you won't loose to much ...
the only thing left of one bass is the body ... every part has been swapped , but each part that came out was sold to pay for a different part ... !
I think used Warmoths are a fun way to work on mods without damaging the value ... and you can make them sound like the Jazz you want them to be ...
anything bought New depreciates the most to the first owner ... ( of course with a few exceptions )
from a Value prospective , ... I bought a couple Used Warmoth basses ... then modded them to suit my needs .. buy a used Warmoth at the right price and you won't loose to much ...
the only thing left of one bass is the body ... every part has been swapped , but each part that came out was sold to pay for a different part ... !
I think used Warmoths are a fun way to work on mods without damaging the value ... and you can make them sound like the Jazz you want them to be ...
anything bought New depreciates the most to the first owner ... ( of course with a few exceptions )
Well, I am one person that has kept his original 1969 Sunburst from the day it was first purchased in the fall of '69 until now. So I can only tell you my experience. We were young and back then didn't know that we were playing "classics" - they were just the instruments we had. And amplification wasn't necessarily so great. Good amps were pushed hard as I rarely got to play through a FOH system that could do a good job reinforcing bass. Even so, I remember that my jazz was brighter when it was new. I could really get that Greg Lake playing knife edge sound with a set of round wounds - any round wound. Today the bass doesn't seem so bright - it does the Jaco sound perfectly, and really finds it's place in a mix. Today it sound more organic - woodier, if that makes sense. Less Hifi, with a good warm punchy midrange. It is my favorite bass to play live, although my new Nordy is a close second, even with a very different sound.
I own a bunch of jazz basses, they all sound a bit different. My thoughts on my 64 CS jazz which is NOS is that man, I bet this will be a great bass in about 25 years". It is a very good bass today, not great. I am also getting a new to me '66 jazz in original condition and am looking forward to comparing it with my ole faithful '69.
- Aug 21, 2003
- 11,588
- 18,604
- Disclosures
- A-Designs Mike Lull GK Tsunami Cables GHS Strings RMI Basswitch Nordstrand Pickups Darkglass
